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I am of the firm belief that we should support them when they say they need privacy for their own dignity, and gay spaces in particular should not be invaded by TIFs. I give them my full, unwavering support.

But I want to point and laugh, first. Once I get it out of my system, I'll defend men's spaces, but not before. Give me a minute. Maybe ten. I want to post some mocking gifs and make smart ass remarks. I support you, men, gay and straight men. No no, I'm serious. This tea just went down the wrong tube. Excuse me for a minute.

Okay, I'm back.

You know what? I need to go pee, I'll be right back.

Okay, I'm back.

Now listen, it really is disgraceful the way TIFs are hounding gay men on dating apps, going to the few gay bars that are left, using men's bathrooms and change rooms. It's creepy, invasive, and disrespectful. I would argue dangerous for the TIFs, but the gentlest man in the world still shouldn't be forced to share space with a woman when he's trying to pee. He DEFINITELY shouldn't be forced to consider TIFs as dating partners, if he is gay. Not even if he is bi, honestly.

But it's really hard to hear men complain about this problem now, considering how they backed TIMs up invading our spaces. Gay men, as a class, called lesbians bigots for wanting to protect the few spaces they had. Lesbians never asked for much. Whose dream vacation destination is fucking Michigan? The bars were usually sparse and low-budget. But these bars and Michfest and all the rest of it meant the world to lesbians.

TIFs barely existed, and the few that were there were usually lesbians. So men, gay and straight, never really had to worry about women invading their spaces. Even now, they don't have to worry about their sports or prisons (most male prisoners were LOVE women to be locked up with them). Now TIFs are, rather stupidly, going into men's bathrooms. And they are quite brazenly going into gay men's spaces. This is simply horrible of them and I understand the anger gay men have.

But for all the men whining "YOU want YOUR spaces, why can't WE protect OURS?"

What spaces do we have left? Your sex class fought tooth and nail to not have women's public bathrooms or sports. Then you found ways to effectively abolish them. It didn't cross your mind that you might lose your spaces, because at the time TIFs didn't exist. I don't think lesbians should allocate half their efforts to regain their spaces to men, since they got very little backup as they were losing them. Straight women should respect men's spaces, and support the need for them, but not center it as the core issue. Because it's not even a third of what we've lost.

I don't want to hear "Trans women are women, but gay men's spaces are sacred.....and straight guys deserve their privacy."

I dunno; this is just bugging me today. It's not that I don't think men need their own spaces. They do. But it's hard to listen to them complain now, when I got puzzled stares and scolding for telling them what this was costing me, as a woman.

I am of the firm belief that we should support them when they say they need privacy for their own dignity, and gay spaces in particular should not be invaded by TIFs. I give them my full, unwavering support. But I want to point and laugh, first. Once I get it out of my system, I'll defend men's spaces, but not before. Give me a minute. Maybe ten. I want to post some mocking gifs and make smart ass remarks. I support you, men, gay and straight men. No no, I'm serious. This tea just went down the wrong tube. Excuse me for a minute. Okay, I'm back. You know what? I need to go pee, I'll be right back. Okay, I'm back. Now listen, it really is disgraceful the way TIFs are hounding gay men on dating apps, going to the few gay bars that are left, using men's bathrooms and change rooms. It's creepy, invasive, and disrespectful. I would argue dangerous for the TIFs, but the gentlest man in the world still shouldn't be forced to share space with a woman when he's trying to pee. He DEFINITELY shouldn't be forced to consider TIFs as dating partners, if he is gay. Not even if he is bi, honestly. But it's really hard to hear men complain about this problem now, considering how they backed TIMs up invading our spaces. Gay men, as a class, called lesbians bigots for wanting to protect the few spaces they had. Lesbians never asked for much. Whose dream vacation destination is fucking Michigan? The bars were usually sparse and low-budget. But these bars and Michfest and all the rest of it meant the world to lesbians. TIFs barely existed, and the few that were there were usually lesbians. So men, gay and straight, never really had to worry about women invading their spaces. Even now, they don't have to worry about their sports or prisons (most male prisoners were LOVE women to be locked up with them). Now TIFs are, rather stupidly, going into men's bathrooms. And they are quite brazenly going into gay men's spaces. This is simply horrible of them and I understand the anger gay men have. But for all the men whining "YOU want YOUR spaces, why can't WE protect OURS?" What spaces do we have left? Your sex class fought tooth and nail to not have women's public bathrooms or sports. Then you found ways to effectively abolish them. It didn't cross your mind that you might lose your spaces, because at the time TIFs didn't exist. I don't think lesbians should allocate half their efforts to regain their spaces to men, since they got very little backup as they were losing them. Straight women should respect men's spaces, and support the need for them, but not center it as the core issue. Because it's not even a third of what we've lost. I don't want to hear "Trans women are women, but gay men's spaces are sacred.....and straight guys deserve their privacy." I dunno; this is just bugging me today. It's not that I don't think men need their own spaces. They do. But it's hard to listen to them complain now, when I got puzzled stares and scolding for telling them what this was costing me, as a woman.

59 comments

[–] shveya 69 points

Some neckbeard that comments a lot on r/tumblrinaction keeps going on about how women deserve to have their sports eradicated due to some group of girls that wanted to join the boy scouts in the 90's. It's bizarre how bitter they are when it comes to anything that has to do with the female sex being disobedient to them.

[–] BJ581 46 points

It’s honestly past time to set the record straight on this. Some girls did want to join the Boy Scouts and sued them for the right to. The Girl Scouts did not do the same activities and that’s why they wanted to join. They lost the case. When it went to court, the girls lost and Boy Scouts remained boys only. Years later the Boy Scouts were under lawsuits and a huge drop off in participation because of multiple pedophilia scandals. Nothing at all to do with women or girls. In an effort to save their organization and with exactly zero action by any court or any female person of any age, the boys scouts started girls troops. The boys have their troops, the girls have theirs. All that essentially happened here is that they added a new, and separate, part of Boy Scouts that is for girls. Fucks sake I’m so tired of listening to men whine about Boy Scouts when only like a third or less boys ever even bother with it and literally not a single Boy Scout has ever been forced to be in a troop with girls. Even if they were, boys learn better in a coed environment and girls learn better in a single sex environment. The only people who would lose in a coed troop would be the girls.

End rant.

[–] ifelifelse 16 points

I replied similarly elsewhere. My boys are in cub scouts with girls in a troop and the dens are all segregated by sex/gender. It totally works, and the boys have their own space. All that happened was that the better opportunities in Boy Scouts were opened up to girls.

[–] BJ581 6 points

Exactly, and completely because Boy Scouts chose to. No action on the part of women or girls, the lawsuit was long before that and completely separate. Idk why men are so up in arms about one lawsuit that was lost years before the organization decided to go a different way. If you don’t like it, take it up with Boy Scouts, it’s got nothing to do with women. Keep in mind though, if they hadn’t changed they would’ve gone under completely so while you’re at it, thank female Boy Scouts for the fact that it still exists.

[–] Boudicaea 7 points

Thanks for posting this. I never wanted to be in girl scouts because it sounded super lame (all they do is sell cookies and crochet AFAIK). Would have much preferred the boys scouts activities as a girl. Maybe I can get my daughter into a girl troop with boys scouts if she feels the same.
[–] DoomedSibyl 3 points Edited

Maybe we should improve Girl Scouts or girls activities in general so that there are many choices of activity to appeal to all talents and personalities. With a caveat related to the old badge system, that some skills are considered basic skills and must be mastered to enter the more advanced offerings.

Women are interested in everything as far as I can tell, depending on the individual girl or woman. Why not expand this to include all girls and interests. Silver lining bonus? We might have a chance to build some solidarity and class consciousness in the girls coming behind us.

I’m privileged to actually know some little girls between 9 and 14 these days and they’re definitely feeling the weight of the patriarchy even if they don’t understand it.

[–] ghoul2 6 points

Actually girlscouts started funding a lot of women in stem initiatives. Girlscouts and microsoft co-sponsored an after school program at my school district that taught girls about computer aided design and 3d printing
[–] BJ581 3 points Edited

Yeah, Girl Scouts never appealed much for me either, if Boy Scouts had been an option I may have considered it as well. Hope your daughter finds something fun either way.

[–] NewMa 9 points

Boy Scouts are coed nationally now.
[–] ifelifelse 9 points Edited

But they separate by gender, so girls are in their in own troops, which may or may not be linked with boys’ troops.

Gender segregation remains in Boy Scouts. All that happened was that all the (way better) opportunities that boys had in Boy Scouts were opened up to girls.

My sons are in cub scouts that have girls and it seems to work great like this. Also pretty sure at this point Boy Scouts has better safeguarding than Girl Scouts since GS have swallowed gender ideology hook line and sinker.

Source on the separate troops https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/02/13/get-your-top-10-questions-about-scouts-bsa-answered-right-here/amp/

Edit oops, I replied in the wrong place and I’m just going to leave it here
[–] Redmage 4 points

Yes, you men also deserve to have male-only spaces.

No, I won't help you fight for them. I'm too busy fighting battles that pertain to me.
[–] La_Terfa Moid Tamer 34 points

Fuck moids, they can solve their own little pathetic problems. They could do it very easily, in fact, since most of their problems are their own creation. Women's issues are a thousand times worse, and they're not our fault, they're all of the abuse we suffer from others due to our biology and bodies.

And in the case of TIFs harassing gay dudes, well, gay men already tell them to fuck off with no repercussions, because society respects men's dignity.

And no, I don't "support" men in anything except being quiet.

[–] Demeter 5 points

TIFs in gay men's spaces are a total false equivalence when compared to the takeover of women's spaces by TIMs. It all boils down to physical strength differences and the fact that the violent half of the planet targets the less-violent half 9 times as often (50 times as often in the case of sexual violence). I don't want 5 year old boys in my spaces but if they are too bothersome I can shove them away from me at any time.

[–] twilight_tequila 2 points

Moid? What's that sorry?
[–] La_Terfa Moid Tamer 7 points

It's a condescending term for men/males. It's a spin-off of the term "femoid/foid" which is what incels and other moids call women.

Moids bad.
[–] twilight_tequila 3 points

Oooh I've never heard this! I like it, it makes my brain think of robots which is very fitting considering so many men are akin to robots in their lack of empathy, programmed wrong haha. Stupid moids lol
[–] Moona 🪷 5 points Edited

I know I incels call females femoids so I think it’s the male version of it to parody (?) it
[–] crodish 🤡🌏 12 points

I'm fine with men's spaces being "invaded" by females because 1) maybe then they'll finally fucking understand why it's a big deal to us 2) TIFs are going to pose VERY little threat to them regardless of the fact 3) men need to start being more responsible for their class as a whole.

Women are already fighting against men in female spaces, women who argue that men SHOULD be in our spaces (fuck you Emma Watson), and we're probably going to be asked and blamed for women in men's spaces, too. Women's fault for everything while the men just pile on, rules of misogyny, etc. Tired of it.

I know there are some men fighting back already, both straight (Chris Billboard comes to mind, as do a bunch of conservative politicians and comedians) and gay (MrMenno is my favorite, and most of the others who are normally allies with "GC" TIMs on twitter), and that includes the few men on here as well, but there needs to be more. MORE.

At the same time I am concerned that most of the men I see standing up against gender ideology are the same men who believe homosexuality is sinful and that women should go back to the kitchen and that abortion is murder. Sigh. Fuck this earth
[–] Lilith-Fair 18 points

OP you're a lot nicer than numerous MRAs who see what TRAs have done to women and tell us, "You wanted equality!"

[–] SakuraBlossoms 19 points Edited

There's also the simple fact of how much power do women really have to bully gay men in their spaces? Not that much. Nowhere near the power men have been given to harass lesbians. Gay men can easily dismiss women in their spaces as annoying Karens, while lesbians have to deal with straight up predators getting validated and supported by countless female handmaidens and male incels. Where are the TIFs making death and rape threats to gay men? Even if they were, which I've never seen, everyone knows that because they're women, the chances of them acting on them would be extremely low and the fear would be so much less.

Of course I fully support the right of both sexes to have same-sex spaces. But lesbians have had it far, far worse and have seen an almost complete lack of support from gay men.
[–] crodish 🤡🌏 5 points

Where are the TIFs making death and rape threats to gay men?

Not to be the "ACKshually" person, but it's around, we just don't see it as much simply because we're female and we won't seek it out on purpose. It's the same reason why men always go, "why aren't the feminists speaking out about this??", it just doesn't affect them the way it does us.

That said, still don't see as much men of either sexual orientations speaking up about it as much as women do.

Boxer Ceiling Receipts:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Sgz9aR2BxPH4JgqA7
[–] SakuraBlossoms 1 points

I came back to this to grab that compilation again and I just have to say, WOW. Incredible resource 💯💯💯
[–] Juniperius 2 points

I don't see a single mention of, let alone threat of violence anywhere in that collection. Unless you count the one who acknowledged that a gay man might kill her if she tried to hit on him.
[–] crodish 🤡🌏 3 points Edited

There aren't as many death threats as women get, that's true, but that's female socialization of TIFs for you. But there are death threats (a number of "burn in hell" and "kill all cis gays") in that lot. I'm not trying to justify it or argue it's as bad as women get it, because it's not, I'm simply saying it does exists and to pretend it doesn't at all isn't statistically correct.

There were certainly plenty of rape theats alone in it.

[–] pennygadget 16 points

I'm not gonna weep for these dudes who feel violated in their spaces. Men feeling uncomfortable is the only way this madness stops since women's comfort/safety clearly means jack shit to the people in power

[–] goatsauce 17 points

Not just Michigan, but Michigan at the height of mosquito season. Lesbians can't have anything, and what we do have is inconvenient on purpose to keep out as many moids as possible.

Good luck, men!

[–] NO 12 points

I'll help you when you help me.

We helped you back then, and this is how you return the favor.

Eat your cake.
[–] carpetplaydohx2 4 points

I won't defend men's spaces. Not no way, not no how.

Look, it's a nice thought and all, but they've not lifted a finger to help us in our fight. I don't think they ever will. If they want to protect their spaces, they're welcome to do so. Meanwhile, I'm still over here fighting for equal pay, and at my age, I'm going to RETIRE still not earning the same dollar my husband has all along. Which means that my retirement is going to be short-changed, too, and so it my kids' inheritance.

If men don't like women in their bathrooms, I suggest they figure out how to handle it. After all, they're the ones in charge of virtually all countries around the world (if not all of them). So deal with it, guys.

This one's on you.
[–] Kraken 11 points

Sometimes I hope that my TRA friend’s son comes out as trans, just so he actually has to face the consequences of his beliefs. So I’m a much worse person than you ;)
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