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I know it's a stupid take, and I'm sorry, but I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I hate that no, not all of us (me mostly) will be able to discern this. I hate that this is a plausible situation that can come from "transmen are free to use female spaces because they are female, regardless of how much they have masculinized themselves" and that scumbag men will likely once again use it to their advantage.

Like right now, there's probably zero chance in hell that TIFs would actually want to admit they are female by using the ladies, or that TIMs would admit to being any sort of man, but I can see the AGPs who don't care either way adopting this.

Males can already stealth in as "passing" transwomen whom we've never noticed (they're already doing it when they don't pass as "women"), they sure as hell would have no problems pretending to be bearded, balding transmen, too.

I remember a positive interaction twitter thread posted by a GNC woman who said she had been confronted by another woman who told her she was in the ladies, thinking she was a man. The OP told the woman she was actually female, the woman then clocked her as female after she spoke, and all was well and good, because the woman did recognize the OP was female, as she said.

I keep thinking about how if it was me and if my shit clocking senses couldn't tell, if I would have made a fool out of myself insisting she was a man (if it was a TIF instead of a GNC woman). Or if it was some skinny feminine AGP with a beard and he'd lied and said he was actually a transman. And I would be more mortified about insulting a masculinized woman that she looked like a man that I'd likely let it go. And if it would start the whole thing about being overly suspicious of anyone remotely non-conforming, or even "truscum trans" who used the right-sexed toilets, or detrans people whose appearances have been permanently altered.

....can we have a rewind to thirty years ago where I would have no idea even if the tiny minority of "passing" transwomen were actually stealthing into our toilets who ACTUALLY only wanted to pee, where we had unspoken assurance that 99% of the people using single-sexed spaces WERE that sex and I didn't have to think about it?

I got reccomended a random video by a TIM called Kat Blaque today about Gender Critical views and in it he went on about how he supposedly was afraid/uncomfortable to use either sexed toilets in his facility, so he actually chose to pee into a cup (?!) at his desk (?!??!?) and then toss the waste away into a bin instead (?!?!?!? the poor fucking cleaner that had to deal with that..). This was a daily thing until they provided single/neutral toilets in the building. Which, thanks for not going into the ladies, but no woman would or could do this 1) because that's fucking crazy and unhygenic 2) without causing a huge mess - it's privilege of peeing out a dick that you can fucking aim your jetstream anywhere. And if I had no idea Kat was trans I honestly don't think I could have clocked him. He says this is why he was stealth for most of his days. He now has an F marker on his documents which supposedly helped him immensely in getting jobs and stuff.

I just. I hate that he had to live in such an undignified manner but I also hate that the answer was not to call out men on their unacceptance and violence towards transwomen and to blame women instead. Transwomen should be able to use the male restrooms in peace and safety. They should also be able to have jobs despite looking like a woman with an M marker. They should be calling out other men who bully and harrass them - they have enough cancel power as it is, so why aren't they doing this??

If laws were sexed based and men and transwomen used male toilets, and women and transmen used female toilets - hunky dory. Sex based again, offenders can be prosecuted, etc. Women wouldn't lie about being transwomen to access the male bathrooms, so no issue there. But men can and likely will lie about being transmen to access the women's, just like they already are about being "women".

TL;DR thinking way too much about a hypothetical scenario, why can't men just fucking leave us alone, I hate this earth, arrrrrrrgh

I know it's a stupid take, and I'm sorry, but I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I hate that no, not all of us (me mostly) will be able to discern this. I hate that this is a plausible situation that can come from "transmen are free to use female spaces because they are female, regardless of how much they have masculinized themselves" and that scumbag men will likely once again use it to their advantage. Like right now, there's probably zero chance in hell that TIFs would actually want to admit they are female by using the ladies, or that TIMs would admit to being any sort of man, but I can see the AGPs who don't care either way adopting this. Males can already stealth in as "passing" transwomen whom we've never noticed (they're already doing it when they *don't* pass as "women"), they sure as hell would have no problems pretending to be bearded, balding transmen, too. I remember a positive interaction twitter thread posted by a GNC woman who said she had been confronted by another woman who told her she was in the ladies, thinking she was a man. The OP told the woman she was actually female, the woman then clocked her as female after she spoke, and all was well and good, because the woman did recognize the OP was female, as she said. I keep thinking about how if it was me and if my shit clocking senses couldn't tell, if I would have made a fool out of myself insisting she was a man (if it was a TIF instead of a GNC woman). Or if it was some skinny feminine AGP with a beard and he'd lied and said he was actually a transman. And I would be more mortified about insulting a masculinized woman that she looked like a man that I'd likely let it go. And if it would start the whole thing about being overly suspicious of anyone remotely non-conforming, or even "truscum trans" who used the right-sexed toilets, or detrans people whose appearances have been permanently altered. ....can we have a rewind to thirty years ago where I would have no idea even if the tiny minority of "passing" transwomen were actually stealthing into our toilets who ACTUALLY only wanted to pee, where we had unspoken assurance that 99% of the people using single-sexed spaces WERE that sex and I didn't have to think about it? I got reccomended a random video by a TIM called Kat Blaque today about Gender Critical views and in it he went on about how he supposedly was afraid/uncomfortable to use either sexed toilets in his facility, so he actually chose to pee into a cup (?!) at his desk (?!??!?) and then toss the waste away into a bin instead (?!?!?!? the poor fucking cleaner that had to deal with that..). This was a daily thing until they provided single/neutral toilets in the building. Which, thanks for not going into the ladies, but no woman would or could do this 1) because that's fucking crazy and unhygenic 2) without causing a huge mess - it's privilege of peeing out a dick that you can fucking aim your jetstream anywhere. And if I had no idea Kat was trans I honestly don't think I could have clocked him. He says this is why he was stealth for most of his days. He now has an F marker on his documents which supposedly helped him immensely in getting jobs and stuff. I just. I hate that he had to live in such an undignified manner but I also hate that the answer was not to call out men on their unacceptance and violence towards transwomen and to blame women instead. Transwomen should be able to use the male restrooms in peace and safety. They should also be able to have jobs despite looking like a woman with an M marker. They should be calling out other men who bully and harrass them - they have enough cancel power as it is, so why aren't they doing this?? If laws were sexed based and men and transwomen used male toilets, and women and transmen used female toilets - hunky dory. Sex based again, offenders can be prosecuted, etc. Women wouldn't lie about being transwomen to access the male bathrooms, so no issue there. But men can and likely will lie about being transmen to access the women's, just like they already are about being "women". TL;DR thinking way too much about a hypothetical scenario, why can't men just fucking leave us alone, I hate this earth, arrrrrrrgh

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15 comments

He AGPs definitely would not calm themselves transmen. From what I understand anything that breaks the fantasy that they are really truly a “real woman” sends them into a rage.

Now, the everyday POS pervert without AGP will definitely start doing this. “Hey! I’m not a man! I’m a woman on testosterone!” will be unquestionable.

That’s the point of this whole thing, to make sex unrecognizable and mix up characteristics so much no one can tell. THAT”S what will destroy womens safety- we won’t know who’s what until it’s too late.

[–] crodish [OP] 🔪🍠 6 points

Urrrgh yes that's what I hate! I DO hate having to "police gender"! I don't WANT to waste my time having to think about shit like this! I do not give a shit about other people's genitals or whatever they want to do with them! But it's become necessary to BECAUSE boundaries have been eroded! Hate this earth arrrrrrgh

[–] GraceHoward1729 2+2=4 8 points Edited

They feed off of being called women and being 'seen as' women. It's their fetish. Pretending to be women and getting women to pretend too is the 'right' they are fighting for. It's a men's sexual rights movement. They won't give that up and call themselves 'trans men' for access. It's complete capitulation they want. Kat Blaque is a misogynist and I can guarantee he uses female spaces with glee; the story is bogus to further the narrative that these fetishistic entitled men are somehow 'oppressed' and 'marginalised' by parodying women and purposefully violating women's rights and boundaries.

99% of sexual offenders are male. This is why our goal is 100% of men out of women's sex-segregated spaces. We're not fighting to keep women who pretend to be men in women's spaces, we're fighting to keep men who pretend to be women out of women's spaces.

Obviously I will ally with men who seek to keep their spaces sex-segregated also, for their privacy and dignity, especially gay male spaces, but this is not my main fight. My goal is 100% of men out of women's sex-segregated spaces. Which spaces women who pretend to be men use are not my primary concern.

Exactly. AGPs will never do this because it is against the point of what they’re doing.

[–] crodish [OP] 🔪🍠 0 points Edited

My goal is 100% of men out of women's sex-segregated spaces.

Of course, but I'm also aware that it's likely impossible to achieve a full 100% because of said men lying / those who genuinely slip under the radar via stealth. Until technology develops that magical "detection by biological sex" thing like the thing with the boy/girl dorms in HP books I think the best I can expect is the 99%.

I honestly don't want any male to use our spaces no matter how well they pass, but I don't see being able to keep them out unless we actually police people at the door.

Social contract. If the law says that female spaces must remain exclusively female, for women's safety, privacy, and dignity, and we make changing sex markers on documentation, i.e creating a legal fiction, illegal, then that is what can be expected in those spaces. There's no need for policing people at doors.

A lot of them are already calling themselves "butch lesbians" so in a way it has already begun.

TIMs lie. Literally, that's what they do. They lie about being something other than male, that's their defining trait. They also lie about all kinds of other stuff. So, when I hear sad sobbing and violin music about some poor TIM who was so distraught over using the women's bathrooms, I hear them pulling the heartstrings of the Be Kind crowd. Inevitably, some handmaiden will bleat out "Oh, you poor poor dear! Come and use the women's, don't be silly!" It's a cunning and calculated manipulation. I hate that women still keeping fucking falling for it in 2022. I automatically doubt any such sob stories from these wolves in sheeps clothing, no matter how pretty or nice he pretends to be. He'd keep his crossdressing in the bedroom if he were so nice.

When you're telling your granddaughter about the good old days when women had our own rights and our own single sex spaces, it will sound like a fairy tale about flying on a broomstick or something, because these TIMs are stealing everything from us. I wish women would stop feeling sorry for them while they are robbing every woman and girl of their human dignity, safety and rights. Men's purported attacks on TIMs are not our problem.

[–] proudcatlady 2 points Edited

A bit unrelated but does anyone else have thoughts on Kat Blaque? Like obviously it’s already bad because he’s appropriating womanhood, but he seems WAY different than any other TIM I’ve ever heard of. I don’t get weird fetishy vibes from him. It seems like it could be internalized homophobia and self-protection all the way down. I’ve seen him interact with actual women and it has always seemed respectful to me.

Edit: I may be biased because at least on YouTube to me he passes. I genuinely never would have known he was trans if it weren’t public info.

I followed NikkieTutorials for a long time before he came out as trans and although I never officially suspected from YouTube, something about “her” always seemed really off and misogynistic to me. This was before the TRA boom so if the same situation happened now I’d clock him for sure.

Yeah in Nikkie’s videos, where we only see his neck and face, he kinda looks like a plump woman who overdid it on the fillers. No wrinkles, extremely tiny nose, ginormous lips, filled cheeks, it’s all a little uncanny valley and definitely triggers my “something’s off” meter. But then you look at any picture of him standing up and wow it’s undeniably male. My aunt is a very tall and plump woman, of similar height to Nikkie, but her build is completely different and feminine.

I never clocked Nikkie Tutorials either, but I didn't like the makeup because it was so over the top and glam. I was looking for more reasonable looking makeup info. Like you said she seemed "off" and afterwards I realized that she never had shots from the side or at an angle, it was always straight on shots because thats how she passed. She actually has a pretty big jaw when you see her from the side which is kind of hilarious.

Same but the behavior is really off. Definitely TIM vibes but when I followed him it was before I knew

[–] crodish [OP] 🔪🍠 2 points

I looked him up on ovarit after seeing the video and there's a few takes on him here, but as far as TIMs go he seems one of the low-key ones. I have my doubts about the "being respectful" thing, in that video, even though he referred to us as "Gender Critical people" or "people that don't like trans people" you could already smell the disdain coming through the screen. I do think he's better than the Blaire White types since he doesn't over exaggerate the performative femininity, but it's still womanface. ): plus all of them always have boobs. There's no way it's not a fetish, even if it's not taken to the extreme.

I wonder if he thinks boobs will attract straight men to him. I’m sure it’s a fetish but I do suspect there are varying degrees of it. Like “if I get this surgery I’ll find love and maybe not get beaten up”