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What exactly is supposed to be so special about gender that you can identify into or out of it? I was thinking... how is it different than me saying "I don't identify as human" when it is an indisputable fact that I am human?

Why is gender set aside as this other category and the normal rules don't apply? Obviously, countless people have made the argument--how is transgender identification different that 'transracial' identification, which is panned for obvious reasons (ala Rachel Dolezal...)? But, one step further, how is it that gender gets this special designation not given to ANY OTHER characteristic, especially when it's impossible to prove or disprove?

I think this came up for me because I was mulling over Chase Strangio's tweet that said, "For those of us who are not women and can become pregnant..." Like... hold the phone. How is this flying? Females insisting they are not women by virtue of an inner feeling and that if we, the general public, don't 'validate' that inner feeling that they are not female then we are "pretending [they] don't exist or that [they] stop existing?" Why is this becoming a protected category?

I just... how is it different from me saying I don't identify as human and wanting to be given some sort of 'rights' for this identification? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it just continues to baffle me that the trans movement stakes everything on sex denialism. Why? Why can't it be "For those of us who feel dysphoric about being of the female sex and can become pregnant, we ask that medical providers individualize our care to minimize the mental health impact of pregnancy on us?" That is a statement that is grounded in reality that still speaks to the personal experience that TiFs have of being dysphoric about their sex... thereby, they are not 'erased.'

What's to stop me from insisting "just because others see me as human, doesn't mean I am?" And if I did, how is this any different from the sex denialism/'gender' self-identification?

Edited to add: Also further questioning this all because I watched a youtube video of a non-binary female who had a double mastectomy to 'affirm' this non-binary identity who also had a video about using 'packers.' Just... wait what? How in the world is feeling 'non-binary' a reason to have your breasts surgically removed or to go around with a fake penis in your jeans?

Somebody pinch me.

What exactly is supposed to be so special about gender that you can identify into or out of it? I was thinking... how is it different than me saying "I don't identify as human" when it is an indisputable fact that I am human? Why is gender set aside as this other category and the normal rules don't apply? Obviously, countless people have made the argument--how is transgender identification different that 'transracial' identification, which is panned for obvious reasons (ala Rachel Dolezal...)? But, one step further, how is it that gender gets this special designation not given to ANY OTHER characteristic, especially when it's impossible to prove or disprove? I think this came up for me because I was mulling over Chase Strangio's tweet that said, "For those of us who are not women and can become pregnant..." Like... hold the phone. How is this flying? Females insisting they are not women by virtue of an inner feeling and that if we, the general public, don't 'validate' that inner feeling that they are not female then we are "pretending [they] don't exist or that [they] stop existing?" Why is this becoming a protected category? I just... how is it different from me saying I don't identify as human and wanting to be given some sort of 'rights' for this identification? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it just continues to baffle me that the trans movement stakes everything on sex denialism. Why? Why can't it be "For those of us who feel dysphoric about being of the female sex and can become pregnant, we ask that medical providers individualize our care to minimize the mental health impact of pregnancy on us?" That is a statement that is grounded in reality that still speaks to the personal experience that TiFs have of being dysphoric about their sex... thereby, they are not 'erased.' What's to stop me from insisting "just because others see me as human, doesn't mean I am?" And if I did, how is this any different from the sex denialism/'gender' self-identification? Edited to add: Also further questioning this all because I watched a youtube video of a non-binary female who had a double mastectomy to 'affirm' this non-binary identity who also had a video about using 'packers.' Just... wait what? How in the world is feeling 'non-binary' a reason to have your breasts surgically removed or to go around with a fake penis in your jeans? Somebody pinch me.

29 comments

[–] crodish 🤡🌏 7 points

I think the world is just incredibly sexist and being a human is exhausting and overly complicated. So a lot of people think this cheat code works if they just reskin and rename themselves. But it only works so much and only for a certain period of time and most of those that use this cheat code aren't aware of the ramifications and issues that set in late game.

Everyone's just trying to escape being born human.

I think it's a lot of factors at play:

One is recognition of minority groups, which transgenders have succeeded in making themselves by attaching themselves to the LGB movement.

Two is Western society trying to be more accepting/accommodating of mental illness.

Three is society's rigid, reductive ideas of what it means to be male vs female.

And four is Big Tech, Big Pharma, and other random capitalists' interest in transhumanism.

[–] Nediljka_Orwell PITA crone 2 points

Two is Western society trying to be more accepting/accommodating of mental illness.

In some states, the mentally ill have more rights than their families. They don't have to take their meds. They don't have to attend therapy. They will not be admitted to a facility against their will unless they're "a danger to themselves or others". Which is very tough to prove before something bad happens.

A lot of families simply give up, care for them the best that they can and cross their fingers. Or they let them slide into homelessness. Or don't try to keep them out of prison, where a lot of mentally ill people end up.

States and the federal gov will throw money at them with various disability benefits, but there's very little actual help.

What's to stop me from insisting "just because others see me as human, doesn't mean I am?"

Give it a minute. There’s a big trans/furry overlap.

[–] LonelyKindred Based Tomboy 8 points

That's more of an otherkin thing, thankfully, and those mostly died out... Either that, or merged with the crazy DID fakers on tiktok.

Yeah I mean that's the entire thing behind mogai, abstract genders

Personally, I've always identified as a tomato and I insist on others acknowledging my identity! If I have a baby one day, I'll be the first tomato to give birth to a human child! Well, unless my child decides to identify as a potato one day, then I'll be the first tomato to give birth to a potato

the first tomato to give birth to a potato

Staying inside the nightshade family? What kinda weak-ass transspeciesism is that?

I'll be the first tomato to give birth to a potato

This is the kinda laugh I needed today. Thank you. :) :)

hahaha remember this post 😂

If you and sentient_broccoli had a baby, the baby would be a tomatoccoli or a broccomato. But ofc free to identify as a potato !!!

[–] thesnorkmaiden 18 points Edited

I really, really hope that more TiMs start "double" identifying (as women, but also wolves, babies, Koreans, whathaveyou), because I think that it highlights that the different types of "trans" are all the same.

One thing I’ve been told is gender is a social construct and so it’s up to us to decide how we feel, whereas things like your species aren’t a social construct. This is a weak answer though because there are many social constructs we can’t just identify as. I can’t identify as a different race or class.

I think I’d like to be able to stop identifying as human. I’m really beginning to think that we’re a fatally flawed species.

The way 'gender' is used in the term 'gender identity' makes it undefinable. It is whatever Chase wants it to be and Chase is the master who decides that. Any attempt to define this new 'gender' in a way that others could verify or falsify results in it being defined as sexist stereotypes or allegiance to retrogressive sex roles. So it's deeply anti-women and deeply sexist.

In many cases it just seems to be a replacement term for 'personality'. But why not use the latter instead? The nonbinary category, in particular, infuriates me, because for someone to be nonbinary, everybody else is squeezed into one of the two binary boxes, and because this has nothing to do with sex, coming out as nonbinary really means that the person sees everybody else in very sexist terms: Two-dimensional caricatures of the most extreme pejorative gender stereotypes. Those are much worse for women than for men. We will be Stepford Wives or Barbie dolls or porn actresses, and we won't mind being oppressed and objectified. Only the female-bodied enbies are full human beings now! And then we are expected to celebrate them on certain days of the year.

In reality almost everybody is nonbinary in hobbies, vocations and so on, but now we are not even allowed to express that view.

I honestly would be less bothered if people like Chase just said, "I'm really connected to the gender stereotypes associated with men" instead of trying to pretend like everyone has some innate gender identity. Just OWN the fact that you're working within a sexist framework and don't force it upon anyone else. I don't know why that is so hard. The fact that they can't do this just means they're too insecure and addicted to wanting to control other people.

And how are the NBs not seeing that they can cut their hair short and wear masculine clothes while still being aware of their femaleness...?

Lots of women wear masculine clothes and have very short hair. More did, because we are going backwards, but I still see many like that.

The female NBs I have read online seem to hold very conservative views about women and men and dislike the rules they believe women must abide by. They appear not very feminist, some are pretty contemptuous of women, and many hope that they can escape sexism and misogyny be transitioning. Not going to work, unless testosterone enters the picture.

I see the difference between my feminism and the gender identity cult like this: The feminism I support tries to minimize the presence and rigidity of existing gender roles. Let people be people and be judged as individuals, except in the few cases where sex matters. The gender identity cult erects more and more little rigid gender boxes but argues that people can leapfrog from one to a different one. Everyone must stay in some box, however, and those who are female will never gain equality in that system unless they have surgery and take testosterone and so pass as men. That's because the boxes will be arranged hierarchically, and masculine people will rule, just as men rule today. The difference between the current system and the gender identity religious system is that we can still sue on the basis of mistreatment by sex, but nobody can sue in that new system where gender is a choice.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 5 points

In many cases it just seems to be a replacement term for 'personality'. But why not use the latter instead?

Because they don’t have any personalities.

[–] real_feminist 7 points Edited

I think it's because gender roles are still deeply embedded in our society.

The transracial comparison would be very different if it happened 100 years ago when most people still believed that white and black people should occupy different roles in society and phrenology was popular.

In that society, allowing a few people to swap roles would be 'progressive' compared to the most extreme racists and would be more palatable to racists than eliminating racism.

Females insisting they are not women by virtue of an inner feeling and that if we, the general public, don't 'validate' that inner feeling that they are not female then we are "pretending [they] don't exist or that [they] stop existing?" Why is this becoming a protected category?

Basically it started with degenerate men who wanted their sexual fetish enshrined in law. those ideas had a kind of cult-like draw for mentally ill people and thus this new gen was born

transgender was coined by the male – and according to his protestations, heterosexual – cross-dresser Virginia Prince, who sought to distinguish himself from those identified as transsexuals, and to create a more acceptable face for a practice previously understood as a ‘paraphilia’ – a form of sexual fetishism

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