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There's more to this phrases and I'm trying to pick it out.

If I talk about women's sex based rights in a comment thread under something trans related, people call me transphobic, which is a common occurance for us all.

But the thing that I find interesting, is they expect me to rush in to defend myself. They say things like "I hope you know that makes you transphobic" and "you can say you're not transphobic, but you clearly are".

I never claim to not be transphobic and I respond by telling them I don't care if they think I'm transphobic. Then suddenly they stop replying. It's like that's their power; making you back into a corner to defend your virtue, and beg that people can see you're not transphobic.

It doesn't work with me because IDGAF what people think of me personally, I'm trying to open people's eyes not gain approval.

Is this what it comes down to, though? Everyone is jumping on the TWAW bandwagon to make sure no one thinks their transphobic? Not being transphobic is the end goal for these people? I think it's more about that, than it is about supporting trans people.

Transphobia is not the same as homophobia. It doesn't mean treating people badly becayse they're trans. They let people assume it means that, but when they say it, they mean you're gender critical. Everyone gets scared because people might think they look like bad people, so they start talking about trans people they know, and allies and all that shit. Even JKR did it.

I'm growing accustomed to the term in the same was I am with TERF. Being against gender idelogy is not a bad thing. Trans people endorse a dangerous ideology, so being called transphobic is not as mortifying as people seem to think it is. Not to me, it's not.

Sorry for dumping my thoughts on the screen like this.

I'm just wondering what you think. Do you need to make sure people know you're not transphobic when you're being gender critical? Does that word make you cower and defend yourself? Does it shut you up? Could you ever own it? How do you interpret the meaning of it?

There's more to this phrases and I'm trying to pick it out. If I talk about women's sex based rights in a comment thread under something trans related, people call me transphobic, which is a common occurance for us all. But the thing that I find interesting, is they expect me to rush in to defend myself. They say things like "I hope you know that makes you transphobic" and "you can say you're not transphobic, but you clearly are". I never claim to not be transphobic and I respond by telling them I don't care if they think I'm transphobic. Then suddenly they stop replying. It's like that's their power; making you back into a corner to defend your virtue, and beg that people can see you're not transphobic. It doesn't work with me because IDGAF what people think of me personally, I'm trying to open people's eyes not gain approval. Is this what it comes down to, though? Everyone is jumping on the TWAW bandwagon to make sure no one thinks their transphobic? Not being transphobic is the end goal for these people? I think it's more about that, than it is about supporting trans people. Transphobia is not the same as homophobia. It doesn't mean treating people badly becayse they're trans. They let people assume it means that, but when they say it, they mean you're gender critical. Everyone gets scared because people might think they look like bad people, so they start talking about trans people they know, and allies and all that shit. Even JKR did it. I'm growing accustomed to the term in the same was I am with TERF. Being against gender idelogy is not a bad thing. Trans people endorse a dangerous ideology, so being called transphobic is not as mortifying as people seem to think it is. Not to me, it's not. Sorry for dumping my thoughts on the screen like this. I'm just wondering what you think. Do you need to make sure people know you're not transphobic when you're being gender critical? Does that word make you cower and defend yourself? Does it shut you up? Could you ever own it? How do you interpret the meaning of it?

27 comments

[–] ClaraReed1 58 points (+58|-0)

I don't like it, because phobia implies a fear of something. I am not afraid of trans people, in general I'm just annoyed by them. They annoy me, profusely.

I remember about 8 or 9 years ago, when I worked in a different job, I was discussing feminism and misogyny and the resident dickhead of my team told me that the things I was talking about made me sound like a man-hating lesbian. I looked at him and simply said, "And?" He had no response. He expected me to declare I neither hated men nor was I a lesbian. Jokes on you, bro, I'm gay as fuck and a good portion of the time I DO hate men. And what?

This is it. Everyone knows that women are socialised to be kind, to be perfect. I think it gets complicated here. Some people use that to shut us up: you can't make that argument, because it's not kind, you don't want to be unkind do you?

On the other hand, it's a bit deeper than just not allowing us to have an unkind opinion and using shame to cause cognitive dissonance, I think there's an underlying sense that what we say can't be true if it causes said cognitive dissonance. Somehow that's proof that we're not thinking straight or that we're just being selfish or emotional.

I can't quite pin it down, there's more that I can't articulate. It's like people accept and believe that the cognitive dissonance caused by stating a fact that makes us feel unkind, makes their point of view in the argument correct, it's not just a tactic to silence us, I think people genuinely believe it makes us wrong and them right.

[–] spinstah 12 points (+12|-0)

I think you're on to something. Men as so used to be being centered and granted legitimacy/primacy, that any comment from a woman which causes him to question or examine himself must be wrong. From there it's very easy to fall back on the old arguments of, she's crazy/emotional/unkind/selfish/ etc etc. That's what those arguments are there for in the first place.

[–] hellamomzilla 7 points (+7|-0)

It makes people ANGRY to be disagreed with and there's a weird idea that the ANGRIER you are, the RIGHTER you are. Which is simply not true.

[–] Seven-of-Wine 10 points (+10|-0)

Love this!

[–] ClaraReed1 7 points (+7|-0)

Your username is chef's kiss

[–] Seven-of-Wine 7 points (+7|-0)

Thank you!

I love Seven. I know she was costumed to please men but I loved her attitude. I can just hear her on the subject of trans:

"Your identity is irrelevant. You are a fetishist."

[–] r4df3mcynthia 0 points (+0|-0)

so, would you said homophobia is the fear of gay people? c'mon, we know the something-phobia is prejudice and hatred, not fear. which, obviously, is not what we women are having towards trans people. we actually challenge TRAs on their misogynistic and homophobic beliefs.

[–] yikesforever 29 points (+29|-0) Edited

It should mean treating trans people badly because they are trans. But they f*cked it up and now it simply means acknowledging the differences between females and males.

The first once or twice I got called a "terf", I was like "hey!", now I'm like thanks for calling me that. It's an honour. It means I stand up for women and accept the truth of biological sex. Same with 'transphobe', I don't care. It doesn't mean hating or treating trans people badly.

[–] Turtlefuzz 21 points (+21|-0)

I agree, the word "transphobic" has lost most of its meaning to me. When simply saying "biology" gets you yelled at, it is kind of a hollow insult.

Every time I see some TRA or transperson call someone TERF or transphobic, I imagine that meme of Theoden: You have no power here!

[–] antandro 17 points (+19|-2)

Everyone is jumping on the TWAW bandwagon to make sure no one thinks their transphobic? Not being transphobic is the end goal for these people? I think it's more about that, than it is about supporting trans people.

The thing is that once you make a declaration that you are "transphobic", a few things happen.

  1. That declaration will follow you around to various positions. If it ever looks like you can might be in the running for some sort of office, or if you rise to any sort of managerial/executive position, then it's a skeleton in the closet that your enemies will trot out.

  2. The idea of "transphobia" is deliberately broad and ranges from "I think men and women are biologically different" to "I want to kill all the transgender people". Once you accept the label, none of your enemies will make the charitable assumption that you disagree on a philosophical level; no, they go straight to labeling you as a potential murderer.

  3. Socially, as you've pointed out, it's both a virtue-signalling tool and a way to keep people in line. That's how most labels work. In a very significant sense, it doesn't exist: it says absolutely nothing meaningful about the world. This is difficult to see in the moment because it feels like an attack, and since it is a virtue signal, one feels that one must defend oneself. Nevertheless, it's as though someone typed out "blorp blippety veesk mour": meaningless subjectivity. This is a useful thing to keep in mind.

At the root of all of these is the fact that by such a declaration, you've allowed others to attach a label to you that you didn't define. And that label can morph and change — who knows what it will mean in 10 years' time? — while still sticking to you, whether or not that was its meaning in the time and context that it was originally used.

My suggestion is that you simply ignore it. By either agreeing or disagreeing with it, you allow them to set the terms of the engagement. That is bad enough. But it isn't the real problem.

The real problem is that it completely derails any sensible conversation about the actual issues, whether they were about safety, or biology, or medicine, or politics, or ethics, or ... anything else. And by replying to it, you set an example that shows others how they should also respond to such things, and you make it possible for additional derailings to occur in future. So the real issues never actually get discussed — and if anything works in favour of a TRA, that does. It's no wonder that they jump to the "transphobic" accusation so quickly... why would you ever do anything else, when 99.9% of the time, this one tactic works flawlessly?

I totally agree. I instinctively know not to declare myself as transphobic because it's clearly a word that people assume aligns with homophobia, only with trans people as the subject. There's no point in denying it either, though, it becomes a discussion about you and your morality, then, which actually I hadn't thought much about. It does derail the conversation, suddenly it's a personal attack.

[–] dalyandot 16 points (+16|-0) Edited

I think that is a great insight. Women especially are brought up to please people and not give offence. Many people especially on the left want to be seen as supportive to minorities and against oppression. Being called a bigot or phobic hurts them It's like the worst thing that can be said. And they don't want to lose friends or be ostracised. So calling women who are just starting to question trans ideology transphobic works to shut them up and stop them thinking. Edited to add I still find it a bit threatening. Mainly as I am anxious about a pile on or other harassment that will be justified by that label Especially when it's people I know IRL

[–] Seven-of-Wine 8 points (+8|-0)

Yes we are socialised to be nice. It's the same with accusations of racism, I find.

Also it's a classic emotional abuser's tactic to derail the conversation away from what their victim wants to talk about and onto an assassination of their victim's character or analysis of some word they used or whatever.

[–] Seven-of-Wine 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

I think you're exactly right that the word transphobic is said when they mean gender critical as well as to mean that people hate trans people. Although in TRA circles, to say that biological sex exists, and matters, means you are "erasing" trans people which is itself supposedly a transphobic act.

I mean I don't believe in the concept of trans people at all. Wow, it feels good to be able type that here. Yeah, I don't believe in the entire concept of trans so yes I do want to erase their stupid, gaslighting, harmful trans identities entirely! I think it's all gender dysphoria or AGP, or maybe the AGP even gives the TIMs the dysphoria so it's all actually AGP driven.

The whole concept of trans is the Emperors New Clothes.The clothes don't exist, he is stark naked. It's nothing but a fetish (in the men; the teenage girls have picked up a new self-harming socially contagious behaviour akin to my generation's anorexia).

Edited for typos

[–] Western_Profession 10 points (+10|-0) Edited

It doesn't work with me because IDGAF what people think of me personally

This works if you're not a prominent figure or have a career-related image to protect for the sake of your own livelihood.

Is this what it comes down to, though? Everyone is jumping on the TWAW bandwagon to make sure no one thinks their transphobic?

When the consequences are what they are for thinking otherwise, yes.

[–] no- 9 points (+9|-0)

The only thing that makes transphobia such a terrible thing is that it gets conflated with homophobia and racism. Transphobia is considered as bad as racism because black people used to be excluded from spaces for whites, much like when transwomen are excluded from spaces for women; except that's not a good analogy at all, because black people truly are the same as white people and race is nothing but a social construct (skin color and features are a material reality, but they don't make anyone significantly different from any other human being). Are women and transwomen the same? Absolutely not, because transwomen are male. Is biological sex a social construct? Also no, it's a material reality, and males are significantly different from females, for example, most males are physically larger and stronger than most females.

Transphobia isn't the same as homophobia either. LGB people don't need everyone else to validate their sexuality because sexuality isn't as fragile as gender identity. Sexuality is what sex you're physically attracted to, and you can't change it. Trans people argue that their chosen gender identity is who they truly are, they were also "born this way". Except that's not true. Identifying as a woman or having a mental disorder that makes you reject your biological sex doesn't actually make you the opposite sex. It only makes you a man who wants to be a woman. LGB people are actually LGB, trans people aren't actually the opposite sex, so not the same at all.

That's how I see this situation, please correct me if I'm wrong about any of the points I just made.

[–] How 8 points (+8|-0)

I think you make a lot of sense. I'm transphobic because I don't believe that gender is real. I also have lived with a body dysphoria obsession for 30 years. Being a woman simply means that my body is designed to create immobile large gametes and grow and birth babies. That brings along with it a huge amount of bother but dressing up to look like I look and making fuckable holes in your body doesn't make you a woman. I own my transphobia.

I'm not scared of trans people, at all. Phobias imply an irrational fear of something. My concerns are perfectly rational and the thing I truly fear is violent men and children being hurt/abused. "Transphobic" has no effect on me either. You're 100% right, it just means gender critical or radfem. In the end it's all code for "uppity woman". I've dealt with hatred and slurs from men my whole life (because I'm a female), and at this point I'm jaded to it all.

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