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I have been seeing this phrase cropping up more and more often and I hate it. Any tips for shutting it down without being labeled TERF?

example of usage: "Going out for a jog at night isn't an option for most women and femmes because it could be unsafe"

I've tried telling people the word originally was used by the lesbian community, but I'm not sure if lesbians use it anymore?

I also tried pointing out that by their own logic that means trans women aren't women.

Finally I ask them what femmes means and if it means feminine people then why are we lumping together women and "feminine people", doesn't that just force the idea that women must be feminine? But this last one is extremely high risk you're gonna be bitched at for "TERF". Sigh...

I have been seeing this phrase cropping up more and more often and I **hate** it. Any tips for shutting it down without being labeled TERF? example of usage: "Going out for a jog at night isn't an option for most women and femmes because it could be unsafe" I've tried telling people the word originally was used by the lesbian community, but I'm not sure if lesbians use it anymore? I also tried pointing out that by their own logic that means trans women aren't women. Finally I ask them what femmes means and if it means feminine people then why are we lumping together women and "feminine people", doesn't that just force the idea that women must be feminine? But this last one is extremely high risk you're gonna be bitched at for "TERF". *Sigh*...

13 comments

[–] catspls 13 points (+13|-0)

Omg I can't stand the "femmes" shit. Lesbians do still use the word "femme" btw (and gay men use it as well, same w/ the word "butch), but the way the queer types use it is so weird, like it doesn't even fit in the original context for either lesbians or gay men.

Finally I ask them what femmes means and if it means feminine people then why are we lumping together women and "feminine people", doesn't that just force the idea that women must be feminine?

I do think this is a pretty reasonable response w/o being too overtly terfy. Or you could also say that they're enforcing gender roles. That'll be sure to make their heads spin lol.

[–] Luckystar [OP] 9 points (+9|-0)

I'm glad you understand! Like "BIPOC", it just showed up out of nowhere one day and now everyone (of the wokies) is saying it. Nobody wanted or needed a different word but they just all fall in line and use it

[–] Ravenclaw_Feminist 10 points (+10|-0)

There's this weird implication that "butches" don't experience fear from running at night.

[–] GCRadFem 5 points (+5|-0)

TRAS co-opted it. Yeah, it makes no sense to me why they do. Lesbians still use it, perhaps much less so with younger lesbians. When I came out, pretty much you were either butch, femme or androgynous. I am femme and have always partnered with butch lesbians.

[–] yesisaiditxx 4 points (+4|-0)

I assume it wouldn’t matter regarding the trans point because maybe they mean that “theys” can be femme? Because...you can have a biological sex that you “aren’t” and then identify as someone that’s neither but still classify yourself as something that insinuates you are one of the, uh, two like femme...as far as I understand it that’s how it works

[–] TheAspieLady 4 points (+4|-0)

Fun fact : femmes is women in french. So women and women.

I have no clue what femmes is supposed to mean in english however.

[–] feralfeminist 0 points (+0|-0)

Women with a stereotypically feminine presentation. From what I understand, it was meant to only apply to lesbians who present feminine. Now everyone's bloody using it.

I was talking with my daughter about that one day and I said, "You know, 'butch' is a fantastic word for masculine-presenting that takes the sex and gender terms right out of it. Wish we had an equivalent for feminine-presenting." We decided that "diva" sounds pretty good, though I'd be open to other suggestions. Also maybe a different word for "butch" since that word also belongs to lesbians. I'd love to move away from making appearance sex-based.

[–] littleowl12 3 points (+3|-0)

It's so homophobic. Feminine gay men are mistreated because of gay bashing, not misogyny.

[–] feralfeminist 0 points (+0|-0)

And most gender muggles believe TIMs are feminine gay men, still.

[–] heartwitch 3 points (+3|-0)

Ugh, if anyone has good advice for this -- like, something that worked - I'd love to hear it too. To me it's a no-brainer that if transwomen are women, then "femmes" means "feminine men," in which case there are very few times when we should be lumped together. Maybe being unsafe at night is one of them, although I think you'd have to be trying pretty hard to be a femme male jogger.

[–] dalyandot 3 points (+3|-0)

I don't understand what it means. I can no longer keep up with the latest wokeness so am,giving up.

[–] strawberry 2 points (+2|-0) Edited

i literally just had a convo with a libfem friend about this and she sent me a bullshit article about how the term femme has been expanded to include transwomen