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This is a 2-in-1 post discussing the the rise of TIF identities among bi women in particular, and talking about my personal struggles with feeling like "enough" of a woman as a heavily SSA bi woman. I'm wondering if others can relate, and if this could be one of the reasons why transition is on the rise.

I've been noticing a very sharp increase in feminine/gender conforming bi women who are identifying as trans or non-binary now. Lesbians are even more affected by it, but I'm noticing that it's starting to affect bi women now more than I've ever seen before.

I'd like to add that a lot of people are still under the assumption that most FTMs are lesbians, but this isn't true anymore. As of 2015, 29% identified as some flavor of bisexual. Additionally, another 24% identified as "queer", which is a nebulous identity that could mean anything. Only 23% identified as "heterosexual" (aka lesbian). I wonder how it's changed now.

I have 3 theories:

1: Bi women experience disproportionate amounts of domestic and sexual abuse. I am aware that it's becoming more and more common that women who have experienced abuse/rape become TIFs/non-binary later on. (See also: Demi Lovato, Courtney Stodden, etc.)

2: Many bisexual people feel like they are not "queer" enough for the LGB(tq+) community. Bi women are generally are more likely to conform to feminine gender roles, and most are read as straight. Many often report a general sense of alienation from the community. Perhaps some of them have decided to identify as nonbinary in order to feel "queer" enough?

3: Maybe they feel like lesser of, or a "failed" woman for liking other women? Low self-esteem?


This is the post-within-a-post. Also, this one relates to WLW in general. That being said:

I think about this a lot. As I look back on my life, I think that if I was just a few years younger, woker, and/or more naive, I'd likely be identifying as non-binary right now because of this.

When I was in middle/high school, I had a lot of internalized homophobia, and I felt like a "failed girl" for MANY reasons, but the biggest one was because I am mainly attracted to women. I couldn't relate to most of the "girl-talk". So I generally preferred to either be alone, or maybe hang with the boys (if they were being respectful, which they SELDOM were). I felt like I didn't like guys "enough" and was frustrated by it.

TRA propaganda was beginning to go mainstream at the time, however it wasn't as pervasive back then like it is now. But as I said, my internalized homophobia (and general low self-esteem) made me feel like I was failing at girl/womanhood. I think that if TRA propaganda was more common and if I wasn't an Anti-SJW edgelord at the time, I'd have probably been convinced that I'm "actually not a girl" and identified as non-binary.

As someone who is somewhat GNC, to this day, I still struggle with feeling like a "less" of a woman compared to feminine women. (Especially the ones I find attractive.)

Anyone else can relate to this feeling?


4: Any detrans/desisted/former NBs that are bi who care to shed some light on it would be very helpful. I think there are many other reasons that I haven't considered and it'd be nice to hear your input.

End of post. Sorry if this post was messy & scattered given that this is a 2-in-1, but I didn't want to spam the circle with 2 posts, especially since I feel that one of them is tied to the other.

This is a 2-in-1 post discussing the the rise of TIF identities among bi women in particular, and talking about my personal struggles with feeling like "enough" of a woman as a heavily SSA bi woman. I'm wondering if others can relate, and if this could be one of the reasons why transition is on the rise. I've been noticing a very sharp increase in feminine/gender conforming bi women who are identifying as trans or non-binary now. Lesbians are even more affected by it, but I'm noticing that it's starting to affect bi women now more than I've ever seen before. I'd like to add that a lot of people are still under the assumption that most FTMs are lesbians, but this isn't true anymore. [As of 2015, 29% identified as some flavor of bisexual.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality#Transgender_men) Additionally, another 24% identified as "queer", which is a nebulous identity that could mean anything. Only 23% identified as "heterosexual" (aka lesbian). I wonder how it's changed now. I have 3 theories: 1: **[Bi women experience disproportionate amounts of domestic and sexual abuse.](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf)** I am aware that it's becoming more and more common that women who have experienced abuse/rape become TIFs/non-binary later on. (See also: Demi Lovato, Courtney Stodden, etc.) 2: **Many bisexual people feel like they are not "queer" enough for the LGB(tq+) community.** Bi women are generally are more likely to conform to feminine gender roles, and most are read as straight. Many often report a general sense of alienation from the community. Perhaps some of them have decided to identify as nonbinary in order to feel "queer" enough? 3: **Maybe they feel like lesser of, or a "failed" woman for liking other women? Low self-esteem?** ---- This is the post-within-a-post. Also, this one relates to WLW in general. That being said: I think about this a *lot*. As I look back on my life, I think that if I was just a few years younger, woker, and/or more naive, I'd likely be identifying as non-binary right now because of this. When I was in middle/high school, I had a lot of internalized homophobia, and I felt like a "failed girl" for MANY reasons, but the biggest one was because I am mainly attracted to women. I couldn't relate to most of the "girl-talk". So I generally preferred to either be alone, or maybe hang with the boys (if they were being respectful, which they SELDOM were). I felt like I didn't like guys "enough" and was frustrated by it. TRA propaganda was beginning to go mainstream at the time, however it wasn't *as* pervasive back then like it is now. But as I said, my internalized homophobia (and general low self-esteem) made me feel like I was failing at girl/womanhood. I think that if TRA propaganda was more common and if I wasn't an Anti-SJW edgelord at the time, I'd have probably been convinced that I'm "actually not a girl" and identified as non-binary. As someone who is somewhat GNC, to this day, I still struggle with feeling like a "less" of a woman compared to feminine women. (Especially the ones I find attractive.) Anyone else can relate to this feeling? ---------------------- 4: **Any detrans/desisted/former NBs that are bi who care to shed some light on it would be very helpful.** I think there are many other reasons that I haven't considered and it'd be nice to hear your input. End of post. Sorry if this post was messy & scattered given that this is a 2-in-1, but I didn't want to spam the circle with 2 posts, especially since I feel that one of them is tied to the other.

11 comments

I feel like you used to have to be extremely gnc for people to support a transition, meaning that more lesbians were pushed into it because more of them are gnc. Now that "non-binary" is so popular it's hitting a broader spectrum of girls. Maybe it snowballs, a girl who's struggling for other reasons goes on tiktok and sees a girl she can relate to saying that adopting this identity fixed all her problems.

Re: what TIFs ID as, I think a lot of them who were(/are) lesbians don't know what to call themselves after transition so they just say "queer". They still only date women, but they know it isn't really a hetero relationship, and they don't want to say lesbian anymore.

Re: what TIFs ID as, I think a lot of them who were(/are) lesbians don't know what to call themselves after transition so they just say "queer". They still only date women, but they know it isn't really a hetero relationship, and they don't want to say lesbian anymore.

Yeah, I considered that too when writing my post, But I've seen TIFs of all sexualities refer to their sexuality as "queer" because it's basically a wildcard, so it muddies the waters imo. But to be fair, most "queer" TIFs I've seen are usually lesbians who know that their attraction to/relationships with women will never be the same as actual men's attraction to women. So I'm sure that the percentage of lesbian FTM is higher than those statistics I cited imply.

As a bisexual desister, you pretty much hit it on the head. I can relate to basically all of this.

As a teenager I was really awkward, tall, fat, bisexual... just very alienated from everyone, especially other girls.

When I came out at 14, my mom basically said she didn't believe me because I was too feminine. This sent me on a dangerous identity crisis of feeling pressured to somehow prove myself.

Also around that time my brother made some really shitty comments about how even though both him and I liked girls, I "only like d*kes" and therefore have nothing in common with him. Just made my identity crisis worse, because now I was being pressured to like girls "like a straight boy," as if that was some sort of standard to aspire to. As a desperately lonely kid, I was vulnerable to this kind of pressure.

So the result? I tried to be super butch, and then started identifying as trans.

And when I tried to find the LGBT community, it was completely overrun with AGPs. It was all downhill from there.

I often wonder, if I was a full-blown lesbian, would I have been susceptible to the same insecurity? Or would I have been more able to see my brother's homophobia for what it was and allow myself to stay feeling connected to the "d*kes" he so thoroughly denounced, instead of trying to force myself into some sort of straight male identity?

It was all just some desperate, misguided search for legitimacy. I wish I had just had a supportive family and community. I didn't even realize how unsupportive my environment was. I thought because they didn't kick me out on the street and "bisexual women are privileged," I must have actually had it super easy right? "Best case scenario" right? I didn't even allow myself the relief of acknowledging "my family is being homophobic and this is hard. They didn't kick me out, true, but they're still being absolutely horrible."

But yeah, I think it's good to have conversations about the unique ways bisexual and lesbian women are both pressured into transition. Some of our experiences are the same, but some are distinct. So thanks for the opportunity for the discussion!

I definitely felt alienated from womanhood and from female relationships for 1) lack of interest in men and 2) lack of interest in the feminine rituals and behaviors that allegedly attract men. The second one was probably more impactful in the day-to-day, since realistically, most teens aren't in relationships. They're certainly related though.

I used to identify as non-binary and all 3 of your theories were true for me. There were some reasons that had nothing to do with my bisexuality, but there were some that did. I definitely felt like I wasn't "queer" enough just being bisexual and was always told I could "just be straight" whenever I tried to relate to the other LG/T people. I'm gen Z, so for me pride was mostly about the T to begin with, so I was already super alienated by my "cisgender privilege."

At the same time, I definitely felt like I was less of a woman for being attracted to other women. My first crush was on a friend who was constantly talking about boys in a group of other straight girls. I did what plenty of young girls do and decided that I was a genderless alien and I was just above all of the homophobia, biphobia, and misogyny. Even though it's very normal for young girls to rebel against femininity and hate puberty, I was in an environment where that meant I was trans. I was getting a lot of "support" (read: grooming) from the T community and I could finally be the ✨💖most special queer💖✨ uwu. My mother did what a good parent would do and immediately intervened, immediately put me in therapy, and forced me to cut ties with most of the people from that environment. There are many TRAs now who would think that my mother doing her job as my parent was child abuse and that I should have been taken away from her and given as many drugs and surgeries as I wanted.

I still feel very alienated from straight people and LGB/T people despite being the third letter. But now I'm an adult with a stronger sense of self. I don't need to be part of a community and make that my entire personality anymore.

My mother did what a good parent would do and immediately intervened, immediately put me in therapy, and forced me to cut ties with most of the people from that environment. There are many TRAs now who would think that my mother doing her job as my parent was child abuse and that I should have been taken away from her and given as many drugs and surgeries as I wanted

In Canada, this would be considered "conversion therapy" nowadays and your mom could get in serious trouble for it. I'm happy that she was able to get you out of it while she still could/can.

[–] proudcatlady bihet 3 points

My background is a little unusual. I will say that when I was little I heard a news story about a sex change operation on the radio in the car and got very excited and asked my mom about it. I told her I’d get one as soon as I was old enough so I could marry a woman instead of a man.

She said God doesn’t make mistakes lol so make of that what you will. Now I’m a bihet. If anything I have felt like less of a woman/person for being attracted to men and have often wished I were exclusively SSA.

If anything I have felt like less of a woman/person for being attracted to men and have often wished I were exclusively SSA.

Can kinda relate. I didn't mention this aspect in my OP to keep it shorter, but after I said

I felt like I didn't like guys "enough" and was frustrated by it.

I wanted to add that I hated my sexuality because it was so hard to figure out. I used to think that you had to be equally capable of sexual/romantic relationships with both sexes in order to be bisexual.

So I was frustrated because knew I liked guys too much to be a real lesbian, and I didn't like them "enough" to be a real bisexual. I always said to myself that I was "too bi to be gay, but too gay to really be bi." I felt like a mutant hybrid between the 2, but bisexuality and lesbianism are distinct categories. There is no such thing as a hybrid.

I wished that I could have either been 100% gay, 50%, or 0%. But I wanted to be straight more than anything else. Looking back, the only things I wish for now is:

a) I was more educated on how diverse and varied bisexual experiences can be.

b) That the term "febfem" was well-known, well-understood, and if I knew that I could be one back then.

For me it was the restless male need to date me and women not dating or showing interest. -_- it felt I need a different gender and the men can back off, but that didn't work. This was one of my reasons I went NB. Now I desitied/detraned and now just trying to find women loving women events now.

I've seen #2 play out with more bisexual women in het marriages/partnerships than I can count. Often a child has come out and mom starts questioning her own identity - wanting to relate to her kid she shares her own bisexuality but obviously it doesn't feel like enough as she's been married to a man for decades. I think there can be some attempt at solidarity with their "queer" child by mom also adopting she/they pronouns.

Or the woman is younger and has found a great male partner, which is often how it ends up for bi women because the dating pool of men is just larger, but she feels like her ability to speak on LGB(TQ) rights is slipping away the more entrenched her het relationship becomes.

I never felt a strong need to read as feminine or not but I generally kept my sexuality quiet in high school and early uni because I was almost always in relationships with men as there were next to no other LGB people around me and I was in a conservative environment. (Except in a female only space I was lucky enough to spend time in in hs, but actual relationships were strongly discouraged by the adult women who were in charge, which in hindsight I think is completely fine. I would explain more but I worry about being doxxed.)

I was also just a little too old once the nonbinary stuff started and was lucky enough to have read some feminism to the point that I understood my oppression was sex based. But I think if I had been younger, #1 and #2 would've been seductive reasonings.

No. I have complexes about being not fashionable enough, not beautiful enough, not meeting the rules we are supposed to follow. But I am definitely feminine enough.