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The answer is simple. It's men's fault (as is the case for so many things).

They liked batman when they were kids, cuz heroes are kids things, but as soon as they grown up and those thing they like are being criticized they cant handle it and isntead of saying “yes, its childish and silly but I like it” they deflect and say “Its not childish at all! Look its bloody and gore!”

Men are cowards and cant even stand up for the thing they love

But also:

This is part of socially conditioning the rest of the world to accept male abuse.

The “anti-hero” became a played out common staple rather than a rule-breaking trope around the same time a cultural shift occurred away from traditional values and keeping up appearances with old norms. Honoring the tortured-hero-with-questionable-methods (as well as the society-made-me-homicidal villain) is directly in line with men’s recent, largely successful, attempt to reframe abusive behavior as the uncontrollable product of some deep hidden pain - so feel sorry for them, right? And think how noble they must be for not being worse.

Men are latching on these dark, damaged characters because they want to see themselves and be seen the same way; all their worst parts inevitable, understandable, and, of course, “cool.”

The answer is simple. It's men's fault (as is the case for so many things). They liked batman when they were kids, cuz heroes are kids things, but as soon as they grown up and those thing they like are being criticized they cant handle it and isntead of saying “yes, its childish and silly but I like it” they deflect and say “Its not childish at all! Look its bloody and gore!” Men are cowards and cant even stand up for the thing they love But also: This is part of socially conditioning the rest of the world to accept male abuse. The “anti-hero” became a played out common staple rather than a rule-breaking trope around the same time a cultural shift occurred away from traditional values and keeping up appearances with old norms. Honoring the tortured-hero-with-questionable-methods (as well as the society-made-me-homicidal villain) is directly in line with men’s recent, largely successful, attempt to reframe abusive behavior as the uncontrollable product of some deep hidden pain - so feel sorry for them, right? And think how noble they must be for not being worse. Men are latching on these dark, damaged characters because they want to see themselves and be seen the same way; all their worst parts inevitable, understandable, and, of course, “cool.”

21 comments

I don't know but i know a lot of people still like and appreciate the 60's batman show, that was wonderfully silly and fun lol

Well, in their early days Batman and Superman (sorry I can't find a better link) used to do serious harm to bad guys, because why not? They've since been cleaned up, as has Robin Hood (who wasn't very nice pre-Victorian reboot), and have gone back and forth between fun and gritty depending on the decade.

The original superhero stories were the heroes of classical and pre-classical times: Herakles, who murdered his wife and kids in a fit of insanity, and was inadvertently killed by a later wife who was tricked into poisoning him; the Iliad and Mahabharata, in which an entire generation of warriors killed each other in futile warfare – the few survivors didn't always have much better luck – and so on. Superhero stories have always been used to explore the dark side of human nature.

None of this is really very new. It just goes in cycles.

Nah. I prefer my superheroes to be realistic, ESPECIALLY when they're male. I havent seen anyone insisting joy and silliness is only for children. Look at adults obsessing over Potter, Hello Kitty, Twilight, literally any fandom is filled with adults including Steven Universe. Marvel is literally all flashy garbage, if you're looking for that. There are PLENTY of All Ages comics for Batman, Superman, Spidey, etc, and also cartoons.

Your knowledge of comics and their history is severely lacking. They were never just for kids and Batman used to fucking MURDER PEOPLE. just because Shumacher made a few shitty Batman movies with bright colors and really bad dialogue doesn't mean superheroes were ever just for kids.

I usually don't say this but you're just categorically wrong here based on your lack of knowledge of the topic of "superheroes" and "villains" in general. Do some research. shit has been gritty for DECADES. movies are just now reflecting that. move on, and find something else to get that silly joyful feeling from, because let's be honest, there is nothing silly or joyful about a man with superpowers or super abilities or super money declaring himself the law and throwin' on a costume in order to beat the shit out of people.

anyway, I have a lot of really awesome reccomendations if anyone is ACTUALLY interested in more light-hearted comic book "heroes". generally speaking though, shit is gritty and most people who are spending good money to keep comics alive, including the women, like it that way. we may have concerns but the grit itself isn't one of 'em.

To be quite honest the grittification of superhero films is why I really, really fucking hate 90% of them that have come out past the year 2005. I just can't take them seriously, despite them desperately trying to be serious. When they were silly and fun I didn't need to, I could just enjoy them as weird, zany escapist fiction. Now they're just try hard goofy to me, but never in a good way. I'm sorry, I just can't take a dude in a cape flying around a city seriously in a gritty story. Superhero stuff was fun when it was aware that it was ridiculous.

I’m with you, I miss the old days of proper good guys and proper bad guys, and it was a great adventure in the middle.

I sat and watched both Venom movies back to back yesterday and although they were quite adult, with a bit of the f-bomb and some violence, for the most part it was very comic book style. And the bad guys got their heads bitten off because they were the bad guys, with no hand wringing about how they had a hard life and that’s why they turned bad, boohoo. I actually felt they were more lighthearted and fun than the main marvel movies, and don’t get me started on the D.C. stuff that has to be dark, gritty and mumbly.

They even pulled that shit with The Tick!

Modern superhero stuff bores me. I miss the original goofy TMNTs and campy-graphic Batman movies (and hell, I'd have way more fun watching Adam West Batman over modern CGI epic superhero rollercoasters any day). But Amazon grittifying and un-funning The Tick is what brings out my full Greta Thunberg how dare you response.

May I recommend Jojos Bizarre Adventure: Golden Wind.

Thanks, I can definitely check it out! I tend to not do anime, but finally watching some Studio Ghibli movies softened that hard rule a bit haha.

[–] PaulaAlquist 1 points Edited

more fun watching Adam West Batman

Where else can one see the majesty of Miss Eartha Kitt, the only Catwoman who matters?

every one of her scenes here.

[–] Samhain 1 points Edited

Superheros weren't supposed to be just for fun or for kids. That idea started back in 1954 when the Comic Code was instituted and every comic that was published had to be rated E for everyone essentially. This lasted until the 80s when publishers decided that the underground mature fare was making money and they back wanted in. So they created their own imprints to bypass the code. This led to the gritty reboots of heroes like Frank Miller's Year One Batman, which has been the template for most, if not all, of the Batman movies since Tim Burton. Even something like TMNT, which was a comic before it was a TV show was gritty when it premiered in the 80s.

Comics had to be kid friendly for decades. Writers of superheros since the 80s have been playing with the genre in ways they weren't even allowed to back in the day. Things like Watchmen, The Boys, and Invincible are extremely popular because they play with tropes and comment on a familiar genre. The Boys, in particular, is graphic because it's written by Garth Ennis. He's like a shock-jock but for comics.

We're actually seeing this phenomenon right now with Archie. The Comic Code was officially dissolved in 2011, Archie Comics being the last to use it. Since then, Archie has exploded with weird mature fare like Afterlife with Archie, The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, and the Riverdale TV show.

I'm not entirely sure why movie and TV superheroes are gritty right now, other than they've been like that in some form or another for decades in comic books, especially DC characters. Also, live-action tends to skew more realistic.

Sony is making antihero movies because they have the rights to Spider-man, but they can't make movies with Spider-man without Marvel, so they're stuck with all the other characters, the best of which are villains. Venom, Morbius, Kraven, they all started life as villains, but now that they're protagonists in their own movies they've been turned into anti-heroes.

YASSSSSS this! I love you for articulating this when I was annoyed/on the go and could only say "do your research" 😅 like the jerk I am lol. but yes this 💯

Arguably the oldest super hero is the monkey king Sun Wukong, he goes back to ancient Chinese folklore and was immortalized in the 16th century novel Journey to the west.

he is the definition of a superhero, immortal, super powered, can fly. his story is that of an arrogant beast made humble, he starts out as a demon and becomes an enlightened saviour protecting humanity from his own brethren.

superheroes with depth are far more endearing and long lasting as Sun Wukong shows, along with characters like one punch man (the depressed super hero), All Might (dying super hero), Tony Stark weapons maker creating iron man to get his weapons out of the wrong hands, Batman endlessly fighting crime because of the death of his parents.

and the gods whom are the original superheroes, if you look into the lore of ancient gods they are all flawed, even god himself created the rainbow as a promise he will never flood the earth again hinting at regret at his own actions thus flawed.

so no your wrong, I think you are focusing on a very small section of history when super heroes like Adam Wests batman were made to be a bit of fun probably as a rest-bite to the horrors of the the world, the makers would have remembered WW2, vietnam was raging at the time that was made, Christopher Reeves far more fun superman started during the cold war and so on they are blips not the norm to give rest-bite and hope we should be grateful really if we are in a time that doesn't need them so much and can focus on humanity and depth rather then washing over everything with trying to be a bit of fun in a bad world.

I don't mind the grittiness per se, im mostly disgusted by the just too blatant cash grab of it all. I liked the original x men trilogy and i still watched some batman and spiderman around that time but now? Every "hero" no matter how small needs his own whole franchise with 2 trilogies because obvious cash grab. Batman and spiderman "restart" their universe every other month, because obvious cash grab. I mean seriously, i feel like that spiderman movie wasn't that long ago but since then they've restarted the same story 2 or 3 times??? Is this spiderman or the teletubbies?

Now i know every single film is a cash grab in a way, they all want to make money. But the shameless in your face cash grabbing is what annoys me.

For example i got somewhat curious about this Thanos fella, thought hmm maybe I'll watch some of these films. Well to be able to understand anything at all I'd need to watch like 10 to 15 films beforehand? Yeah that's a no from me dawg

I saw a scene from that show the boys today and it was disgusting. So abusive but played for laughs. That's how I know it's man shit. They're such empty, destructive assholes.