[–] girl_undone [speaking as mod] 0 points (+0|-0) Edited - sticky

Can you repost in /o/GenderCritical or /o/Women please? Removing this here.



I have been getting very involved in spirituality and happened to stumble upon this TIF. I was open to hearing what they had to say but after this post I had to unfollow. It was a post regarding Women's and Men's Circles that are common in the communities I am a part of. We do a group meditation and discuss what we are going through as women. We talk about our emotions, health, fertility, etc.

Basically the gist of their post was that Trans people should be running these gendered circles. My impression is... Nobody said you couldn't start your own circle? Why does it bother you that there are women's (or men's) circles? You believe that your opinion is more valuable because you "lived as both"? That is not what I am looking for when seeking a group of supportive women. Am I crazy?!!!

Actually, put like that (having lived as both), you'd think they would be eager to have their own circle, to discuss and share and compare their unique experiences!

[–] Amethyst9 [OP] 16 points (+16|-0)

Exactly! I have no issue with that but the post seemed like an attack on women who run circles that have been very helpful to me.

[–] chromodorisrex 17 points (+17|-0)

It’s not your imagination, this post is very navel-gazing and condescending

Who better to sit and run a circle than someone who has literally felt not only the suffering & stereotypes of both sides, but someone who embodies it...

Sorry if I’m at a group for women I want to hear from a woman, not a “man” who is really a woman on testosterone forcing us to use men’s pronouns for her. She’s claiming that her wisdom automatically would be more meaningful than the women leading it currently. Preachy, self-aggrandizing, clueless, whiny.

[–] Carrots90 11 points (+11|-0)

I actually hold some anger for the women who try to opt out of womanhood but want to take our best things with them. Our beautiful bodies and the things only we can do.

“Cervix havers” “Birthing bodies” “Chest feeding”

[–] remquarqk 2 points (+2|-0)

Plus there are probably enough woke people to join a "circle for all" like they're wanting. I feel like they just want someone else to do the work for them.

[–] mooncycle8 12 points (+12|-0)

Why put Trans people in the same sentence as ensuring that facilitators are inviting BIPOC? I feel like that is deeply offensive ... like when sitting in a woman's circle, we all know that we each have our own experiences but what brought us to circle is being a woman, regardless of our ethnicity/race. Being a woman is what connects us as we meditate, speak, drum, etc. There is a level of safety and openness that comes with sitting in circle with women.

Anyways, all this to say you are absolutely not crazy!


[–] chromodorisrex 9 points (+9|-0)

I noticed that too, it’s another form of force-teaming their movement with other groups like they did with feminism. If you aren’t kissing their asses you must also be a hateful racist.

[–] remquarqk 3 points (+3|-0)

Yeah it all seems very manipulative, as well as insecure. Like if you can't state your opinions without roping black and native people into it (without their permission), you probably need to re-think what you're saying. By the end it just becomes a woke-mumbo-jumbo word salad. I don't even know what this person is advocating for. One big circle where everyone loves each other? That would be great but realistically people will still need their smaller circles as well. Why is that so hard to understand?

[–] GenderHeretic 8 points (+8|-0) Edited

"Men should be running women's circles! Women shouldn't organise in any way without the supervision of men!"

[–] MeNsTrUaToR27 7 points (+7|-0)

Couldn't even finish reading it. I can't stand when they start smelling their own farts about how they've experienced "both sides". Its so condescending and off putting. Someone thought you were a female once and called you a bitch? Oh please sit down and transplain the secrets of the universe, oh wise sacred one.

[–] [Deleted] 6 points (+6|-0)

lmao you're not crazy, THEY'RE crazy. literally. textbook.

[–] Seven 6 points (+6|-0)

“Felt not only the suffering and stereotypes, but embodies them” So, she admits trans ideology is a bunch of sexist stereotypes?

[–] TheRoyalJesterf 5 points (+5|-0)

Wait, WHAT? Is this TIF saying that she should run a men's circle, and a TIM should run a women's circle? Because they've been "both"?

What if the women's circle gets on the topic of pregnancy? Is the TIM supposed to lead that conversation?

Or is she saying TIFs should lead women's circles and TIMs should lead men's?? I doubt that since that would trigger the hell out of them.

If she is saying what I think she's saying (that TIMs should lead women's circles and TIFs should lead men's), I can't help but observe that the only people who would be negatively impacted by that would be women, of course. Men would get the benefit of receiving emotional labor from a woman (the TIF), so it wouldn't affect them negatively at ALL. Whereas women would be expected to put up with a TIM's fetish. No thanks.

Either way I don't think you can learn shit spiritually from someone so delusional as to not even acknowledge biological sex so I don't see how they're qualified to run any circle at all, TBH.

[–] [Deleted] 3 points (+3|-0)

It's curious to me that she believes any TIF would be allowed to run a men's group. She must know on some level that there's a reason women's groups have plenty of TIMs at the helm and not the other way around.

I'm not sure what spiritual capitalism means either. She's purchased her masculinity, is that not capitalism?

[–] Mikkal 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

One of our important freedoms is "Right to Association":

Freedom of association encompasses both an individual's right to join or leave groups voluntarily, the right of the group to take collective action to pursue the interests of its members, and the right of an association to accept or decline membership based on certain criteria.

It's limited in the United States when it impacts housing, education, and business. Some social clubs are defacto-business clubs, so they've had to comply with anti-discrimination legislation.