And whenever it gets brought up, neckbeards start frothing at the mouth to defend it. "Well ACKSHULLY, men are objectified too, look at He-Man and Conan!" because these dudes are too stupid to understand that those characters are male power fantasies, not female sex fantasies.

[–] crodish fujoshit 48 points Edited

those characters are male power fantasies, not female sex fantasies

Yep. Shove explicit yaoi with feminine, beautiful men, marketed specifically for women, at those same neckbeards, and watch them get incredibly uncomfortable. That's how we feel

Source: my flair

Thats true I don't find massive men attractive, I mean Arnie was never a female pin up.

It's kind of delicious to watch them get offended lmao.

And tbh, all the yaoi I've seen with curiousity treats men with more respect than the men treat the women...unless it's explicit. Even the "soft core" anime crap is filled with upskirt shots and underwear ugh. I defend "fujos" (an offensive term probably created by a man to shame women) more because they aren't the ones masturbating to women getting r*ped..

*I meeeeaan *

I wouldn't exactly say yaoi treats men with respect as it has two main problems you'd commonly see: bad relationship/power dynamics and rape. Mostly the latter bit.

[–] crodish fujoshit 3 points

Fujoshi was indeed originally coined as an insult and then reclaimed, lol. And fujos specifically ship male-on-male, so you won't find women characters involved because that kills the appeal haha

[–] iCONIC 10 points Edited

That's why I have nothing against yaoi

A major benefit of yaoi is its potential for the deconstruction of heteropatriarchal "gender" roles through the female gaze

Women get to have their own fantasies and interpretations of compassionate, empathetic and beautiful male characters expressing and receiving genuine physical affection

No real man has been this compassionate and empathetic. The male characters are what women wish men were like

Unlike the "straight" media that empowers men while diminishing women, yaoi can empower women and gay men

Had the conspicuously heteronormative genre of so-called "mpreg" mislabelled as "yaoi" not existed, and had women known they can never be men, yaoi would be a source of hope paving the way for a more positive and accurate erotic gay representation

[–] crodish fujoshit 5 points Edited

Lmao what.

Nothing about females fetishizing male-male relationships makes for "positive and accurate gay representation". Women will never experience what it's like to be male or be a gay man. To say they can capture that "gay accuracy" via projection is like saying transwomen can be women if they mimick us long enough. Yaoi is just a projection of what women wished men were like. That's it. The same way a trans-identified male can only ever think he knows what being a woman is.

It started out as fantasy. Everyone knew it was fantasy. And it was fine when people still recognized it was only fantasy. It was meant to stay that way. The problem is when that fantasy started bleeding over into real life.

Saying yaoi empowers gay men is like saying lesbian porn created by men for men empowers lesbians

Men are laughable.They're not objectified, they're glorified. They're the ultimate male fantasy brought to life, a version these males wish they were, and are often deluded enough to think they are(just society bringing them down🥴).

If neckbeards spent as much time in the gym as they do w@nking they could actually get pretty close to looking like those male characters tho.

a woman can not look like the females by exercising and diet, they would need a mix of anorexia, boob jobs, liposuction, implants/fillers and to spend there lives never actually doing any strenuous activity that could build muscle and thus ruin the stick with two conkers glued to it look.

When people whine "BUT WHAT ABOUT BEEFY MALE CHARACTERS?", I like to point to this image of 2 magazine covers featuring Hugh Jackman.

The covers for the men's and women's magazines are....noticeably different.

Exactly. There was a Tumblr post that did a breakdown on male/female gaze that includes this example and it's on point.

Thanks for linking that post. I've seen it before. But I wasn't able to find it

exactly. I've never heard a woman express any attraction to He-Man or Conan. Even superheroes are not very high on the list of female sexual interest. You'd think they would be.

TBH I had a crush on Skeletor he was wonderful.

I hate Catwoman's pose too...it's the "ass boob" pose they love to shove in anime and comics that makes women's assets the more important highlight rather than their ability to kick ass.

If any of you ladies want a laugh, look up "someone switched batman and catwomans character models" and see just how ridiculous Catwoman walks. The "men are objectified too" I've seen MANY MANY times doesn't even compare! Infuriating!!

Thankfully Marvel movies give their female characters proper clothing so it's a step in the right direction. But the rest is just alienating neckbeard BS. Men designing women that they want to fk...they want blow up dolls essentially.

If any of you ladies want a laugh, look up "someone switched batman and catwomans character models" and see just how ridiculous Catwoman walks. The "men are objectified too" I've seen MANY MANY times doesn't even compare! Infuriating!!

Speaking of the Batman games, I struggled to enjoy the Arkham games because the disparity in how males and females were designed drove me nuts. All the males looked gritty, dirty, had lines on their faces, wore mostly practical clothes, etc (which fit the setting). But all the females constantly looked like clean, shiny, plastic sex dolls who had immaculate makeup and ran around with their boobs and/or asses hanging out. They didn't look like they belonged in the same game! It really took me out of it

It's weird how the woman on the left looks like she was drawn using the reference of an actual female athlete, and the one on the right looks much less realistic, like someone's strange idea of how a woman should look.

It sucks, because Wonder Woman's origins come from a polygamous weirdo who had two wives I think...so this "progressive" man was just another coomer IMO Still, she is well proportioned and adorable as hell in comparison to Catwoman...Look how they massacred my lady!

[–] crodish fujoshit 19 points

someone's strange idea of how a woman should look

"men's fap material"

At least one male comic book artist (Greg Land) is notorious for tracing photographic images from porn in his comics. He'll also plagiarize any non-porn art that isn't nailed down. I feel pretty sure he is not the only one doing this.

I stopped reading Ultimate Fantastic Four years ago when he took over because the tracing was so obvious I could no longer concentrate on the story. The book didn't last long because it was trash, but I was enjoying it until then. Hate that guy.

[–] Samhain 24 points Edited

The two examples are really interesting choices. The original artist for Wonder Woman was a newspaper cartoonist named H.G. Peter. He thought of himself as a feminist ally and actually drew pro-suffrage cartoons. He drew the above Wonder Woman. The man who drew the Catwoman cover, Jim Balent, went on to publish and draw "soft-core erotica."

Fun fact - The little stamp on the Catwoman cover means that the Comic Book Code Authority deemed that comic book acceptable for all ages.

Excerpts from Comic Code 1989:

Character portrayals will be carefully crafted and show sensitivity to national, ethnic, religious, sexual, political and socioeconomic orientations.

Costumes in a comic book will be considered to be acceptable if they fall within the scope of contemporary styles and fashions.

I want to see male heros with a 30 cm schlong outline and then watch neckbeards screech testerically over it

I actually owned the comic book on the right. What's really insulting about that cover is that she's not depicted like that IN the book. In fact, her character's quite feminist. It's almost like whoever drew the cover wanted to pull her down in some way.

The writer of Catwoman #1 was Jo Duffy, a woman. Jim Balent, who was the penciler for both the cover and the interior art, went on to publish "soft-core erotic" comics after the Catwoman run.

[–] crodish fujoshit 11 points Edited

Tbf cover artists and the artists/writers who do the actual comic are separate departments, so yeah. Might have been a feminist writer in charge and then editor decides "hmm how do we sell this from the cover alone" and took the sex object route

I have that whole Catwoman run and I really enjoyed that version of her. But I remember people mocking Balent for drawing her like that.....and then he went on to launch his own comic that made Catwoman look moderate by cpmparison.

I said about this online years ago but with cartoons, look at Cheetara from the original thundercats vs the newer one. its very stark now when you think about the 80s one looks like a very athletic women, both her and the males are possible (with a lot of work) but they look humanly posible.

by todays standards they all have massive waists and she has tiny boobs and no arse.

The 80s were like this, even for flesh and blood actresses. I look back at the women considered ultimate beauties back then, and they were very normal looking for the most part, compared to today. Realistically beautiful and less “cookie cutter”.

Tbh I wish breast size wasn’t the go-to metric people use to describe this. Naturally large breasts exist, and the women who have them are tired of being treated as though their bodies are inherently more sexual somehow. As a teenager, I was constantly told that I was “sending a message” for wearing, say, a polo shirt that I was staring to grow out of.

But the reason your breast size is so sexualised is because of crap like this. They aren't showing real breasts, theyre showing large fake no stretch marks no sagging no big nipples none of the ACTUAL features of large breasts..

I say this as someone who has had a breast reduction

I get what you're saying, but I think a lot of people believe that breasts above a certain size aren't real/can't be natural also because of stuff like this.

I was on the other side of a LOOOOOT of comments growing up about back pain and sagging and cow boobs that hang things like that. Real large breasts are ridiculed all the time especially by younger men. It's all about perkiness and all of that. People know real large breasts exist, they just aren't attracted to it

I am small with big boobs too, for me its less about the size but the proportions, its not that big boobs are unrealistic but having massive honking boobs on a stick thin anorexic frame is, its the impossible image.

I kind of have massive boobs on a stick thin frame. People sometimes assume that I had breast implants because of it and I used to want a reduction because I was uncomfortable with how much they stood out. So to me those bodies are still realistic, I’m mainly bothered by the outfits and positions these characters are put in.

I doubt you are really stick think because if you get stick thin, as thin as you need to be to match the fantasy aesthetics dimensions, it eats away your boob tissue so you end up with saggy bags.

Exactly how large bottomed women exist too. We exist so fictional women should be allowed to have large bottoms without people automatically thinking “oh she’s nothing more than fap material for neck beards” or “She was only drawn like that to sell comics.”

I feel like this is devolving into a different point entirely. Obviously big bottoms and big breasts aren't inherently sexual, but there's a reason comic book artists draw all their femals characters this way. This kind of cookie cutter big bottom+big breasts+completely flat stomach look is bad for all women of all body types.

Just like when pedophiliac anime artists always draw female characters with no chest+baby faces, it reflects nothing on the women who have this body. Those features aren't inherently pedophiliac, but these artists are using them that way.

Big boobs and big butts aren't inherently sexual, but artists sexualize them.