Women wouldn't get so deep into abusive relationships they fear they can't leave if they dropped the assholes at the first red flag instead of "being nice".

Except lots of the abusive relationships girls and women find ourselves "so deep into" and we have genuine trouble getting out of are not relationships where we've had the option to "drop the assholes at the first red flag."

You make it sound like the only "abusive relationships" girls and women have with men and boys are voluntary romantic partner ones that we made a choice to enter into and we can choose to get ourselves out of. When the reality is, the abusive relationships lots of girls and women are "deep into" and can't see a way out of are relationships in which "the assholes" are tyrannical, bullying, malevolent fathers, uncles, grand dads, brothers, cousins, classmates, neighbors, teachers, pastors/priests/imams/rabbis, doctors, coaches, employers, managers, co-workers, professional colleagues and so on. Many of these abusive relationships started during girls' and women's infancy, childhoods, teens and early adult years... Some of them begin when women are older or elderly and vulnerable in newfound ways.

Some women in middle-age and their elderly years are in "deep into" relationships with their sons and grandsons who have turned out to be sick, twisted, abusive assholes in adulthood and adolescence.

Lots of girls and women are dealing with all sorts of vulnerabilities and constraints - disability, lack of money, illegal immigrant status, financial and practical dependency, dementia, low levels of literacy and education, religious taboos - that make it very difficult for them to drop and escape the abusive assholes in their lives.

By saying "getting deep into a relationship" that is by definition a voluntary relationship someone can get out of. At least in the US, the vast majority of DV and homicides of adult women are carried out by romantic partners. I don't see a legitimate complaint for someone saying we need to push against the social conditioning that leads women to get into abusive relationships. Women do have agency, but many have been conditioned to ignore that agency when there are red flags and that leads them down a path of staying in relationships to the point where they do not think they can leave without jeopardizing their safety or their loved ones. I'd like to see society, feminists in particular, normalize dropping a man at the dating stage when the red flags start, and push back against the idea that women can fix these controlling and abusive men. I am shocked at the sort of crap I see women put up with very early in dating relationships. Yes, men need to stop being shit, but women need to be held up and told loudly and clearly that they do not deserve that shit and they don't need a man so badly that they have to put up with it.

At least in the US, the vast majority of DV and homicides of adult women are carried out by romantic partners.

One reason you and others have that impression is because in the US and globally, records are only kept and statistics are only compiled about DV and IPV against girls and women in the childbearing years, age 15-49. Most national and international bodies that track VAWG do not track and tally the cases of interpersonal and family violence against girls younger than 15 or women over 49.

Some snippets from articles and papers showing how women over 49 get overlooked:

The majority of the existing evidence-base on violence against women focuses on women of reproductive age (15–49), and globally there is sparse evidence concerning patterns of and types of violence against women aged 50 and older.


Intimate partner abuse (IPA) is a problem that affects millions of women across the United States every year. Traditionally, strategies designed to help victims and reduce IPA have tended to focus on women of childbearing age. However, older women who experience abuse at the hands of male partners are often left out of the conversation. Usually grouped with family violence (which may involve abuse by adult children or other caregivers), elder IPA has received short shrift in the social science and legal literature. This Note explores in depth the unique problem of IPA among older women, which is often a continuation of the cycle of abuse begun much earlier in the couples’ lives


“Our research found that older people are much more likely than younger people to be abused by a family member. Because this abuse doesn’t fit the image of what most people think of when they hear domestic abuse, older people can often be hidden from services,” says Suzanne Jacob, chief executive of Safe Lives. “Generational attitudes can also mean that, sadly, people can have been living with abuse for decades without ever being able to name it as abuse.”

More than 10% of women killed by a partner or ex-partner are aged 66 or over but they are the group least likely to leave their abuser and seek help


Although young women experience high rates of intimate partner violence, these issues are still prevalent among women who are older and may increase with an aging population.


Violence against women (VAW) is a major public health problem, a gender inequality issue and a human rights violation. Violence has significant and long-lasting impacts on women’s physical and mental health, including injuries, unintended pregnancy, adverse birth outcomes, abortions (often in unsafe conditions), HIV and sexually transmitted infections, depression, alcohol use disorders and other mental health problems.1–5

Much of this research has focused on women of reproductive age (15–49 years)... However, there is sparse evidence globally concerning patterns of and types of VAW aged 50 and older, and this gap needs to be filled. A global research priority setting exercise on interpersonal violence indicated widespread consensus regarding the limited understanding of violence against older women.

The lack of an overarching framework for understanding violence against older women has resulted in literature and evidence that is fragmented, with some research focusing only on specific types of violence against older women (eg, IPV),some research (in particular, using the older adult mistreatment framework) lacking a focus on the gendered dimensions of violence, and some approaches that focus specifically on older women in protective settings and relationships with caregivers rather than also including women in community settings.

The prevalence of elder abuse in institutional settings may be as high as 64.2%


Adult children can become abusive towards parents too

Disability may also make older victims more vulnerable to the risk of adult family abuse. The SafeLives report found that 44% of older survivors were being abused by other than intimate partner family members, whereas this figure was 6 % for the under 60 age group.


despite the evidence from available data that older women are at greater risk of abuse and violence, older women have not been mainstreamed into ongoing research and discussion on violence against women. For instance, the campaign by UN Women on Ending Violence Against Women has made no mention of older women as a vulnerable group.


Conversations about VAW too often exclude older women, overlooking the impact of age and aging on survivors’ help-seeking behavior, perceptions of abuse, and approaches to healing. Despite evidence that IPV persists across the lifespan and carries greater health consequences for older women, the VAW field has not prioritized including women beyond childbearing age in research, policy advocacy, or victim services (e.g., Straka & Montminy, 2006). Violence against older women is largely unaddressed because it exists in the margins between two fields: domestic violence3 and elder abuse


Older women may be at heightened risk of domestic violence, by partners, adult children, or other family with whom they live, or from caregivers... This violence can occur in but is not limited to homes, long-term care facilities, and the internet. Covid-19 lockdown orders, which in some places lasted longer or were exclusively targeted for older people, may exacerbate the risk of violence and can increase social isolation and loneliness, financial dependency on family members or other caregivers, and alcohol and substance use in caregivers.

Inadequate data collection prevents governments from understanding the full scope of violence against older women. In some cases, data collected on older people does not include information disaggregated by gender. In other cases, data collected on violence against women does not include older women.


In the statistics, the same sort of blind eye is turned towards girls under 15 who suffer violence and sexual abuse in their homes at the hands (and penises) of their fathers, brothers and other male relatives. This is because of the mistaken assumption that the majority of the female population subjected to IPV and DV only begin experiencing it mainly after puberty, and the perpetrators of IPV and DV against them are principally boys and men they date and marry.

[–] Eava 0 points Edited

The original.post was not about violence against women in general. It was about the shitty situations women end up in because of the social conditioning to be kind and put men's feelings and wants ahead of their own. So I'm not sure why you felt the need to go off on this tangent in reaponse to my comment. I did not say that the only kind of violence women and girls experience is intimate partner violence, nor am I turning a blind eye to other violent relationships girls and women face. But should we not try to empower women to leave men early in dating relationships at the first sign ofabusive/controlling/manipulative behavior because mother are abused by their adult children and girls abused by their fathers? I'm really not sure what your point is. And perhaps elderly women would be less likely to be abused by adult children if they had not had children with abusive men, and young girls would not be abused by older male relatives if their mothers had chosen to value themselves enough to get out of a relationship at the first signs of abuse. At some point, women have to start breaking the cycle. At some point, we have to teach our daughters and support our friends and family members in getting away from shitty men before the get trapped by abuse and financial dependence. That was the point of the original post, to break the social conditioning that harms women.

Is this primarily something only women countries with some level of female equality are in a position to do? Yes. Does that mean we shouldn't encourage it for women who do have that option? No.

Again, what is your point? You seem to enjoy posting long missives making strawman arguments in response to my comments, directed at things I did not say. I'm curious as to why.