80

18 comments

[–] HessaHein 47 points (+47|-0)

Also, in woke circles, they actively discourage class consciousness. Poor women and rich women are both at risk of domestic violence, but we are to keep quiet. Black women and white women both face harassment at work, but the black women is encouraged to think it's only race-based, if she wants any help. Western women and non-western women are discouraged from talking to each other, especially in the topics of religion. This is just from personal experiences, but there is active effort to obfuscate and minimize discussion, which explains the heavy surveillance culture in woke spaces.

[–] bornwithovaries 26 points (+26|-0)

This is just more proof that wokes are not leftist. Leftists are just the opposite, they encourage you to find the common axes of oppression and organize to fight them.

[–] NO 28 points (+32|-4)

What a way to admit you’re a misogynist

“Most women are unlikeable”

[–] Medusa [OP] 🐍 46 points (+46|-0)

I don't know, I see the point - to teenage girls and women, a lot of older women are unlikable. It's not until you're older and have had to deal with all the demands placed on women for years that you realize why so many of them aren't "fun" or "easygoing" the way men are. My mother and her friends were deeply unhappy, in large part because of the unrealistic expectations and unfair workload placed on them by men.

I think the woman in the screenshot is correct in her assessment that a lot of younger women have a much easier time relating to the struggles of other teenagers and people in their peer group, and now that they've made their own "oppressed" groups to identify into, they can stay comfortably in their bubbles, roleplaying with friends. That's a lot more fun and easier to swallow (if you can successfully keep the delusion up) than looking head-on into the oppression of women, and realizing there's no escape and the best shot you have is to align yourself with other women, even (especially!) the ones you don't like.

[–] GreenEggsNMaam 21 points (+21|-0)

Yeah, i agree.It has less to do with the poster having misogyny for fellow women and more to do with finding many women unlikeable as a result of socialization, performative femininity, handmaiden-ing for men, etc. Neoliberalism has definitely successfully fractured the sjw/tumblr-y types using identity politics and intersectionalism to make a zillion groups and keep women in/outgrouping each other, and these people cant see the forest from the trees because of the instant gratification of #valid feels.

[–] [Deleted] 16 points (+16|-0) Edited

so many of them aren't "fun" or "easygoing" the way men are.

Yup. Older women are worrywarts and see trouble around every corner because they deal with the fallout. Men walk away from the mess they make, the kids they're estranged from. Women have to stick around and clean it up, so they try to warn you off the mess you're about to make! Hence they seem like killjoys.

But to be fair to the olds (of which I am one) , we've often been in the situation where a younger woman we care about ignores our POV not becuase she thinks we're unlikeable necessarily, but because she thinks she's the exception. We can see it on her face when she indulges us but in her mind she knows that she will not fall into the snare that the other women have. She'll find a good man, she will not be harrassed at work, she will not be like the tired moms when she has kids, she will figure it out and be set apart from the other women. We're socialized this way and it's impossible to see into the future and the snares that trip us up are things we hide from others.

Women are silenced when they have trouble, need support, they're encouraged and pressured to see themseleves, their individual so-called choices as the problem. So reaching out to other women, older to younger, younger to older, is foreign to us, and since men benefit from this, it's the prevailing cultural message.

[–] Verdandi 3 points (+3|-0)

She's saying that from the viewpoint of a theoretical teenage libfem. She doesn't actually think that.

[–] HessaHein 19 points (+19|-0)

I follow OP on tumblr and she's not coming from a place of woman-hatred, but rather an observation. Note how she said many, not most women. There are women you will dislike and disagree with and some (woke) women have unlikeable traits.

The main message is that it's easy to disregard and dismiss women, than to view them as human, with flaws. it's easier to laugh with "queer" "non-women" than to acknowledge how deep and common misogyny is

[–] [Deleted] 15 points (+15|-0) Edited

i feel that way about most men lol. but i actually have reasons.

[–] Verdandi 2 points (+2|-0)

She's saying that from the viewpoint of a theoretical teenage libfem. She doesn't actually think that.

[–] Lawful 25 points (+25|-0)

I only partially agree. I think a bigger reason is that young women very rarely have older role-models and are actively discouraged to listen to or believe older women, that older women are all but invisible culturally, and that older feminist theory gets framed as "outdated and problematic" which steers them away from seeking it out. Younger women barely have any access to get class consciousness like that, especially with the added-on neoliberal choosy-choice empowerment of individually being the most feminine - if you get taught that feminism is about individuals and choices, you don't start thinking about class oppression.

[–] Elizabelch 9 points (+9|-0)

older feminist theory gets framed as "outdated and problematic"

whereas older masculinist theory gets framed as "history" and we're all taught it in school.

[–] Commander_Ivanova 13 points (+13|-0)

The "young women don't listen to older women because society views them as outdated" view is true to an extent, but it's not the main culprit. I would have killed for any kind of older female role model when I was younger, but feminists just do not seem to do a lot of outreach to young women. We get exposed to religion, politics, media, and experience at least a decade or two of socialization before girls happen upon actual feminist ideas and media.

I've seen tonsss of posts complaining that TRAs go after children and how early children are exposed to misogynistic ideas. I've also seen a lot of complaints from posters who are a bit older about memes made based on things like cartoons/anime which are more likely to catch the eye of young people (and the complaints boiled down to "I don't like looking at this")

At some point feminists need to look at our own tactics and start figuring out where we can strategize and do better.

I can't be the only person who reads "older women" and has a slurry of negative feelings rush in regarding my relationships to the older women in my life - not because I see them as 'past their prime' - but because they treat me with condescension and seem to never cease in exploiting their higher spot in the social pecking order. I've tried my damnedest to not treat my younger peers this way as I've aged. First we need to recognize the social conditioning we ourselves have experienced and how it might color our relationships with younger women before we lay the blame on "young people and society"

[–] Verdandi 1 points (+1|-0)

All of this, honestly. Especially the memes part—like it or not that's just how young people communicate now.

This is a really important topic and the responses here are really spot on.

I do have one objection, though, and that is the naming of females as a class. We are, in fact, a caste. This may seem relatively minor, but it has some major implications for how we see our situation in patriarchy and thus for what strategies with which it may be possible to change it. Mobility is possible between classes, but not between castes. Women cannot escape the female caste, even by transitioning.

[–] [Deleted] 3 points (+3|-0)

Excellent point: re caste vs. class

Did you read this piece that was posted a few weeks ago on that very subject, in reference to Teena Brandon

https://www.triviavoices.com/the-inconvenient-truth-about-teena-brandon.html

"gender dysphoria"—a term that, when applied to females, could as well be defined as "sex-caste resistance." Identification with gender roles in a male-dominant culture cannot be separated from identification with the privileges that accompany those roles. As pioneer psychoanalyst Karen Horney notes, "We live… in a male culture, i.e. state, economy, art and science are creations of man and thus filled with his spirit." (Horney, 152)