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[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 40 points

every trad brainwashing fedposting account uses photos and illustrations from mid century advertisements to show women (and everyone) were happy back then, which is like showing people in hundreds of McDo ads and saying it’s proof eating fast food is healthy. Of course the models in these ads are smiling, trim and fashionable: it’s aspirational. Did the promise live up to the hype? NO

It gets funnier when you realize the women in ads are Print Models aka women with jobs outside the home.

[–] GCRadFem 42 points Edited

The 50’s. Father Knows Best, the Donna Reed Show and Leave it to Beaver.

Artificial life. Women in shirtwaist dresses, smiling in the kitchen, dad in his suit,

Life was not like that. We had nuclear war drills in school, girls were required to wear dresses and skirts and girls had to take home economics in HS and couldn’t take shop.

No wonder when The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963, it was revolutionary for all of us.

Landmark, groundbreaking, classic—these adjectives barely do justice to the pioneering vision and lasting impact of The Feminine Mystique. Published in 1963, it gave a pitch-perfect description of “the problem that has no name”: the insidious beliefs and institutions that undermined women’s confidence in their intellectual capabilities and kept them in the home. Writing in a time when the average woman first married in her teens and 60 percent of women students dropped out of college to marry, Betty Friedan captured the frustrations and thwarted ambitions of a generation and showed women how they could reclaim their lives.

No, we aren’t ever going back to the 1950’s. Never.

I highly recommend Rona Jaffe's The Best of Everything (1958) which is not feminist but gives a profoundly sour and sad look at 50s life for four arguably very privileged young white women .

Just added it to my goodreads list. Sounds like it's along the same lines as Valley Of The Dolls

Ooh I've been in the mood for this kind of thing, I'll check it out tomorrow after work.

Wasn't it also the period of "mother's little helper" ie popping Valium all day?

I think phenobarbital was the drug of choice for doctor’s looking to subdue women just enough so that they could still slave away at home without complaining. There was also a diet pill called obetrol that contained amphetamine salts and pharmaceutical methamphetamine.

My mom got addicted to valium when I was a little kid. She said doctors used to hand them out like candy for just about anything..this was in the seventies.

My mom got addicted to Didrex (benzphetamine) in 1983. She was prescribed it right after I was born, to lose her baby weight. She was all of 150lbs

Jordan Peterson, Custodian of the Patriarchy; ''At one point in the discussion, Mr. Peterson, who had been relatively quiet, becomes heated on the topic of women who find marriage oppressive.'' “So I don’t know who these people think marriages are oppressing,” he says. “I read Betty Friedan’s book because I was very curious about it, and it’s so whiny, it’s just enough to drive a modern person mad to listen to these suburban housewives from the late ’50s ensconced in their comfortable secure lives complaining about the fact that they’re bored because they don’t have enough opportunity. It’s like, Jesus get a hobby. For Christ’s sake, you — you — ” https://archive.ph/79U1y

Peterson is a psychologist who should know that even zoo animals go mad when they have nothing to do. As for 'get a hobby'; hobbies rely on having access to money and transport, and being allowed to go outside of the home. They are not a substitute for a meaningful life any more than 'pin money' is a substitute for a living wage.

I wish Jordan Peterson would get a hobby that involved never speaking publicly about his opinions ever again. Touch grass, Jordan. Eat a carb.

Touch grass, eat a carb, construct a giant slingshot and shoot yourself into the ocean, whatever

'it’s just enough to drive a modern person mad'

Modern MAN, he means.

But definitely turn to the mental health industry if you're struggling with your mental health, they really have women's best interests at heart and clearly always have for all of recorded history. Benzos, 'botomies, and barbiturates yeehaw

/S in case it wasn't clear

Yeah you DEFINITELY won't get diagnosed with borderline personality disorder aka the modern version of hysteria

[–] [Deleted] 10 points Edited

And now with brand new hormones and surgery! Seriously, female healthcare and mental health are a joke at best and a mine field at worse. I'm genuinely beyond trusting these assholes who don't even conduct studies on women for all the drugs they prescribe us.

Have you read Sexy But Psycho? It's by a radfem and it friggin changed my entire outlook on the mental health industry.

I wish I could somehow find a radical feminist therapist

Thanks, i've added it to my Open Library list. I've been following Taylor on twitter, but tbf occasionally her takes are a little off.

It's a great book. I really like Dr Jess Taylor's work and her podcast. She has changed my perspective on quite a few things.

I'm always very happy to learn about the 50s because the "great 50s" the trads talk and dream about never existed.

A huuuge number of men cheated on their wifes, for whom it was not really possible to divorce without loosing her face. The work at home was not valued in any way but at the same time expected and violently demanded.

The perfect trad life is impossible because our capitalist society as it is can only function when care work is not valued but provided freely.

[–] femlez34 38 points Edited

Yeah, in countries like Japan and South Korea where many married women are traditional stay at home wives, the adultery is more accepted. They know their wives can't afford to leave, so there's no incentive to treat them well.

It's a reason a lot of young women aren't marrying at all these days. Why settle for that when they can earn their own money and not have to deal with a useless man-child?

On a historical note, prior to the Edo Period (1603-1867) marriage as an institution was never taken very seriously, unless you were a member of the nobility who followed Confucian values more closely. Even then, during certain time periods, adultery was acceptable for both the husband and the wife.

I remember thinking, growing up, that it was a lot more fun to be the "mistress" and you better not hope he leaves his wife for you. You get sex, dinner dates, and gifts, the wife washes his skid-marked underwear and deals with whiny kids. If you're satisfied with an apartment and have no desire for kids, it might work great. Until you develop a gray hair and he breaks it off. Then you're left with zip. So be careful with your money.

I still would never sleep with a married man because I couldn't do that to another woman. Women suffer enough- I'm not going to contribute to the way they're treated like shit.

Remember when Trump left his talented, money making wife for Marla Maples, though? When he figured out that Marla, 25, uneducated, not particularly social, was unable to spin shit into gold, he sent her ass packing too. He even said in the press "I was already bored walking down the aisle."

Melania has only stuck around as long as she has because she has no expectations of Trump as a husband or even human being.

He never admired Marla like he did Ivana or wanted to be with her, he told Marla to abort their kid so that he wouldn't have to marry her. Melania is just as scheming as trump and sees him as a means to an end. She was quoted before his term that she was looking forward to being first lady so that she would be photographed a lot in different clothes and could later build a fashion brand.

Also never mentioned is the number of men who came back from WWII with PTSD.

I live in Germany. So on top of the PTSD, we also had many people who were still Nazis in the 50s. Because you do not stop being a Nazi just because you lost the war...

Yes. I think the American perspective on the post-war period is a lot rosier than the European or Asian perspective, in part because they didn't suffer the humiliation of defeat or the shame of knowing they were on the wrong side of history (of course, the fact that the American homefront was left largely untouched and GIs returned to prosperity and plenty is significant as well).

No kidding. My father was a wreck.

Mine too. Nightmares with him desperately fighting, damage from radiation, pain that I could not comprehend as a child, and an endless fight to get help from the VA.

It was also a time of sexual exploration and fascination with psychoanalysis. I have pulp novels of the time. Loads of tragic gayness, tragic nymphomania, and men being lured out of marital safety by saucy beatnik coeds before regretting it and returning to their forgiving wives' arms. Also loads of bitter divorcee stories.

I love when these trad assholes like Mrs Midwest go on and on about how easy it is to keep your home clean and your man happy, and your asshole bleached, with daily videos and posts...then they have their first kid and realize it's not quite as simple as they thought.

Suddenly they're not posting so many videos and when they do post them, they aren't about how happy they are that their husbands do literally nothing around the house lol

Conservatives: Lefties believe whatever the media tells them.

Also conservatives: These kitchen appliance ads represented real life in the 50's!!!

Even if the fifties housewives were a middle-class thing, mostly (a large percentage of women stayed in the labor force). The push for women to stay at home had its reasons in trying to cancel the Rosie the Riveter phenomenon, i.e., women doing all sorts of jobs because men were fighting the war, and doing those jobs quite well.

When the war ended, the powers that be wanted men to have those jobs and women to return to traditional female sex roles. So the women's magazines etc. pushed for that, too. To some extent this all began in the 30s with the depression, when jobs had to go for men. The war interrupted that trend and the sixties returned the situation to the longer-term historical pattern.

Within that pattern, most women have always worked in the sense of contributing to the family's livelihood, on the farms etc. The fifties was a blip and not a sustainable one. And if you watch old television documentaries about people in politics, science, literature and so on they are almost entirely white men. So all the societal power then was held by that group.

It's worth noting that in the fifties housework was more arduous. Cloth diapers were the norm and fathers didn't typically change babies. Ironing and mending were much more common, as was mothers making clothes for their children.

Exactly. While I'm in Germany, it is equally fashionable here to dream about the days of yore. To my knowledge, no woman in my working class family has ever been a "stay at home wife". They all had to go to factories or work as maids.

Same, and when they were at home it was because they had ten babies and had a farm to run.

The 1950's housewife still had it better than previous generations because they had household aids like modern stoves, vaccuum cleaners, and washing machines. It did free up a lot of the physical labor of handwashing clothes and beating rugs on a weekly basis.

Anything else is just pretty picture advertising.

[–] furyosa MERF 4 points

This reminds me of this excerpt from 'Ancient Futures' (1991) by Helena Norberg-Hodge, concerning the modernization and urbanization of rural Ladakh and the effect it had on the women's mental health there:

One of the most divisive factors is the way in which the roles of male and female become increasingly polarized as their work becomes more differentiated. One of the consequences of industrialization around the world is that the men leave their families in the rural sector to earn money in the modern economy; Ladakh is no exception. The men become part of the technologically based life outside the home and are seen as the only productive members of society.

[...]

Women, for their part, become invisible shadows. They do not earn money for their work, so they are no longer seen as “productive.” Their work is not recognized as part of the gross national product. In government statistics, the 10 percent or so of Ladakhis who work in the modern sector are listed according to their occupations; the other 90 percent—housewives and traditional farmers—are lumped together as “non-workers.” This influences people’s attitudes toward themselves and others, and the lack of recognition clearly has a deep psychological impact. Traditional farmers, as well as women, are coming to be viewed as inferior, and they themselves are obviously developing feelings of insecurity and inadequacy.

Over the years I have seen the strong, outgoing women of Ladakh being replaced by a new generation—unsure of themselves and extremely concerned with their appearance. Traditionally, the way a woman looked was important, but her capabilities—including tolerance and social skills—were much more appreciated.

One day when I stopped to see Deskit, I found her sitting alone in front of the TV at ten o’clock in the morning. She was in the best room, furnished with a large, new vinyl sofa and armchair, but she was sitting on the floor. Her children were in school, and her husband was at work. I had known her in the village when she was a bit shy, but pretty and sparkling. She was still pretty, but the sparkle had gone. She was clearly unhappy and had grown quite withdrawn.

I had come to see her because an aunt of hers had told me she was not very well. Neither the aunt nor Deskit herself knew why she was so unhappy, since she seemed to have everything she could possibly want. Her husband had a good job as a doctor, her children were in the best schools in Leh, and their house was modern, clean, and comfortable. But the process of development had isolated Deskit, imprisoning her in a nuclear family, removing her from the larger community, and leaving her without meaningful work. It had also separated her from her children.

Not saying everything was better for women in pre-industrialized times, but we lost something important in the transition. We need to rediscover our ability to build community again and validate the contribution of all members of that community. Especially to validate the contribution of mothers and the work of child-rearing.

Fuck everyone who ignores or refuses to see the massive amount of invisible work that women all over the world contribute to society

Society would literally be unable to function without the unpaid labor on the backs of women and girls

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