91

38 comments

Don't be silly. The United States and parts of Europe are the only countries that exist. Other countries and languages were invented by Epcot to sell Disney tickets

[–] Lipsy #bornnotworn 15 points Edited

LOL this is so adorable I laughed out loud.

FYI though, this choice is never ambiguous for actual speakers of Spanish.
Most speakers I've heard limn this as an abbreviated form of the expression "género no binario" (non-binary gender) where the omitted "género" is just understood—meaning that even if they 'slipped up' and said/wrote non-binary Woman, they'd still word it as "una mujer no binario" (NOT una mujer no binaria).
This invariant masculine form of the word is also reinforced by the fact that adjectives made from nouns—like "transgénero"—never ever genderflex, either. A transgender woman is "una mujer transgénero" in authentic Spanish regardless of dialect.
(These words aren't supposed to pluralize, either, so a careful educated writer would write, say, *unas mujeres transgénero"—which tends to 'look wrong' to adult learners, but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Lots of actual Spanish speakers ignore that rule and go ahead and pluralize it, though—in the same way as lots of native English speakers never use the word "whom".)

"Transgénera" is a non-word of exactly the same type as "latinx": it's a hypercorrection of something that shouldn't even be 'corrected' in the first place unless you're an arrogant foreigner thoughtlessly overlaying your own language's principles over some hapless, long-suffering dialect of Spanish.
This makes for some fun googling, though, because any and all instances of "transgénera" you might find in discussions of gender ID will all be penned by language-colonialist idiots whose writing contains many other idiocies, too. 🤷🏽‍♀️ Far be it from me to pass up such a great opportunity to continually SMH my way through a whole wall of text.

I've seen exactly one person write it as "non-binary person" instead, which is una persona no binaria where the whole 9 yards is "feminine" words even for boytype persons. (Una persona all by itself is conclusive proof that "word gender" has NONE of the angsty significances that the "latinx" crowd thinks it does.)
Interestingly this is the one and only actual Spaniard, from Spain, whose words i've seen on this topic... so there may or may not be a difference of thingys here.

.

[–] Disappearanceoftheychromosomer ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 2 points

Lots of actual Spanish speakers ignore that rule No, we don't, because it would sound silly and unatural. In this case only the singular is used as you correctly stated earlier. When I say it loud in the wrong way in my head it only comes to mind the way english/deutch or people not familiar with the language would say it.

[–] Lipsy #bornnotworn 1 points Edited

That observation is strictly limited to how educated people write. It's deliberately not about how people say stuff out loud.

Despite having the writing style of a 12-year-old meth addict, I'm actually pretty weirdly obsessive about precise word choices. Unless I'm joking or being ironic, I mean every word I write, and I write every word I mean.

At the "educated" extreme of formality, spoken and written versions of "a language" are genuinely 2 distinct languages—i'm not discussing both.

(I'm still referring to the demographic as "native speakers", because that's what they are—there's no such thing as a native writer of anything.
This doesn't imply that I'm talking about spoken Spanish.)

[–] Disappearanceoftheychromosomer ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 8 points

I am super proud of my language because:

-First, every noun has a gender which I thinks makes mental space to fight against steriotypes. If the word "person" is femenine and the word "boredom" is masculine, the word "chair" is femenine, the word "make-up" is masculine. It leds you to conceptualize a world in which some good things are femenine and bad things masculine. In english for the contrary the only things reffered as femenine are objects: like boats, agencies, cars or institutions. I find that terribly sexist.

-Second, when I learned english slang I became horrorized of the type of insults and slurs that english people have for women. The worse you can say in Spain is "bitch" there is not a worse insult to a woman than that. English on the other hand with shit like "cunt", "hole", "c*mbucket"... absolutely horryfing. If people are interested I could make a post about that.

That would be awesome please do make a post about that!

While many people dislike languages with grammatical gender like Spanish due to the " generic masculine " rule among other things it does have good things about it too like you mentioned plus like you said there does seem like there is significantly more misogyny in English than Spanish despite the fact that the Anglophone world is supposedly more advanced and civilized and " pro-woman " than the supposedly backward Hispanophone world...

And what about languages where there is only one pronoun for everyone and everything? Are they more terven still? Or easier? Certainly fewer opportunities for slipups OR validation.

they are perfectly neutral or exist in a superimposed state like Shrodinger's Cat, where they are both terven and woke and can change form at will depending on who opens the box.

Yes the Romance languages are TERFs... And so are Slavic languages, Greek, most Germanic languages ( with the notable exception of our dear English here of course ) and the Afro-Asiatic languages like Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic and even the Ancient Egyptian language!

even the Ancient Egyptian language!

Would like to hear more about this please!

The Ancient Egyptian language also had grammatical gender much like Spanish does... Words were either masculine or feminine : https://www.egyptianhieroglyphs.net/egyptian-hieroglyphs/lesson-2/

The Ancient Egyptian language is distantly related to the Semitic languages like Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic they are all part of the Afro-Asiatic language family which is the oldest recorded language family in the world due to all the Ancient Egyptian records : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroasiatic_languages/

The Afro-Asiatic language family is even older than the famous " Indo-European " language family that the English and Spanish language belong to among many other famous languages like Greek, Russian, Sanskrit etc and much like how Latin, Greek, Russian and Sanskrit etc are distantly related to each other so is Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic etc distantly related to Ancient Egyptian maybe not as " parent and children " in the way the Romance languages are Latin's " children " but more like how Latin and Greek are " siblings " that are both children of the Proto-Indo-European language...

Some enbies find that genuinely offensive and invalidating.

LOL. "Put an x or an @".

How the fuck is anyone supposed to pronounce that shit!? Especially with the @. Will amig@ be pronounced "ami-gat"? "Ami-ga-oh"? Why can't these entitled White gender-specials stop colonizing other languages?. The Spanish speaking community didn't ask for this nonsense!

You are suppossed to choose for yourself, so it's amigo/amiga.

You are suppossed to choose for yourself, so it's amigo/amiga.

But what about the super special gender goblins who don't want disgusting gendered prefixes in their words!? 😭

Lmao! Truly pathetic. First world problem. These people wanna be oppressed so badly... it’s weird.

I wish someone would go there and tell them " Nobody cares about your " validation " ! " XD

Me encanta. Love it. Although unfortunately the TRAS have managed to force gender neutrality, I see many people using x, i, or @ instead of the a/o. "Lxs chicxs" or "L@s chic@s" is often seen as an alternative to gendered language.

The “x” in Spanish words is some white ass bullshit. It’s literally modern day colonialism fucking “white man’s burden” teaching us poor savages how to treat the ~~~GeNdEr QuEeR~~~ 🥺

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the rules of Spanish pronunciation make shit like "Latinx" difficult/impossible to pronounce for native speakers?

You are definitely not wrong. Also, when people pronounce it, they pronounce it the English way: "Latin - Ex." Not "Latin - Equis." To me, that's the clear sign that it was invented by English-speaking people.

I’m not a native speaker I do feel the need to throw that disclaimer, but yeah the way that word is set up does not work in Spanish.

And the most ridiculous bit of it all is there are gender neutral forms. “Latine” is a word gaining a decent bit of traction and that actually flows in the Spanish language. There’s also always just “Latin”. But no they have to say “Latinx”. That is an active choice they say to stand out and look special it’s in the same league as “folx>folks” it’s literally just virtue signaling bs

They say they use X because X was used in the pre Spanish languages and they’re undoing colonisation or some such nonsense

It also ties in with the wokes current hatred of the British but you know these were the same people who reposted gif sets of doctor who and Sherlock on tumblr and wet themselves over British accents only a few years ago

Yes, X was used in the pre-Spanish languages... as a first letter. Off the top of my head I can't remember seeing it used all that often as a final letter.

Now they are trying to integrate “Latine” instead of “Latinx” because of the backlash from actual Latinas and Latinos. They will stop at nothing lol. Spanish is a TERF language!

Lxs chicxs" or "L@s chic@s"

Wtf. I have no words. It’s almost fucking satire at this point.

They're also using it for people from the Philippines now, "Filipinx." I'm like hello, just call them Pinoy?

[–] Lipsy #bornnotworn 1 points Edited

These mostly belong to super specific subcultures, though. I put them into some context in the post i wrote in response to anonymiss (or at least I tried to).

My observations only apply to Mexico, Colombia (inland part only), and the rioplatense area (Uruguay and about half of Argentina—basically pretty much "Buenos Aires and its discontents", as far as cultural diffusion goes; definitely not Patagonia and definitely not the indigenous-heavy north end of Argentina).

[–] Lipsy #bornnotworn 4 points Edited

The @ as combination a/o is old-school AF—if you dig up a flyer from an '80's or '90's alt music scene anywhere in spanish-speaking South America, it'll be littered with words ending -@s—and I kinda like it.
It doesn't land too well with young people who are trans or trans "allies", though. The NBs all feel personally attacked/excluded by it (for reasons that actually almost kinda make sense, if you ignore the fundamental spoiled-brattery of nb identities and just dig into how they use words), and... well, it was a punky rocker scenester and riot grrrrl thing as long ago as the '80's, and as we all know, '80's kids went to driving school on dinosaurback and are now anywhere from 2,000 to 3,000 years old.

The X-as-vowel is drag culture, in exactly precisely the same way as in the US (I've never seen "gxrls" anywhere except RuPaul's Drag Race).
The difference is that, especially in Mexico, there are a fair number of drag queens who are pop stars with multiple songs cracking the Top 100/Billboard Magazine charts—which pushes random bits of drag culture like "x" as a vowel closer to the mainstream. Not into it per se, but, closer than otherwise.
I'm even a fan of a couple of them, e.g., this song is on a bunch of my playlists. That singer is a pop star in Mexico, but he was actually born in Bell, CA (not even 10 miles from where I'm sitting right now).

Tangential because not Spanish: The other country with tons of drag-queen popstars is Brazil. What's kinda wild is that most of those Brazilian boys don't use ANY Female-coded words for themselves, ever.
This dude who also lives in my playlists is a whole-ass boy whose drag name is ... a second whole-ass boy name (Pabllo Vittar), which except for that double 'l' is way closer to stodgy collared-shirt-wearing old men's names than his birth name is.

Y'all missing the use of the E

Example: Amigues, amigue, novie, no binarie and the only one I will die defending todes, it means all but without sex marker. So the all plural is not masculine. Bc is fckng confusing and we either repeat todos y todas or we use todos and people will ask all men? or everybody? todos todos? nosotras también? We actually have need for todes.

The one that I've heard in RL is amigues meaning friends people actually can pronounce it and then actually use it.

Of course they are. Humans didn't get this far by living in a fantasy world, they saved the fantasies for play time.