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Men aren't complicated or deep and everyone needs to stop acting as it they are.

After two years of podcasts I've listened to, nearly ever one of them boils down to "i hate my mommy and girls are evil sl*ts >:(". That's it. That's the whole motive. They hate women. None of these men are geniuses or bright minds. Not getting caught for something for a while doesn't make you smart. It makes you someone not wanting to get in trouble, aka knowing what you're doing is wrong. Nothing about killing and hiding it makes you smart or a mind worth exploring in any way. These men get too much attention for years afterwards even after they die and it's exactly what they love and exactly what they don't deserve.

I've seenxsimilar rhetoric around cult leaders and other scammer men. They aren't "geniuses" they're just predators.

Yep, it has nothing to do with them being so-called evil 'masterminds'..the main reason they get away with it for so long is because the huge majority of these serial killers are run-of-the -mill looking white men and cops just looked the other way or didn't investigate properly. But making these criminals look unusually clever covers their asses huh?

They also often get away with it by choosing victims nobody cafes about--not just women, but, say, prostituted women, runaway girls, etc.

'But making these criminals look unusually clever covers their asses huh?' Thank you, that explains everything.

[–] GenderHeretic 42 points Edited

Their minds seem incomprehensible because just hating women is dismissed as not counting as an explanation. It's so common for femicides to be classed as "crimes without reasons" that have "no apparent motive". Wow, when you don't count the reason, that leaves no explanation available. Kind of like if you remove "4" as an option to answer the question, "What is 2 + 2?"

m y s t e r i o u s

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 53 points

Exactly it’s like this

Person: Wow serial killer you did these god awful things why did you do it

Serial Killer: Well basically I hate women so I raped tortured and killed a shit ton of them

Person: Lol everyone hates women tho so why did you really do it

I long for the day when people recognize misogyny as a motivation for crimes. Sigh.

Looking at it from a literature point of view:

There's a reason why Agatha Christie almost never (if ever) had murderers whose motive was hatred of women in her novels. They're boring as fuck, no one would be surprised to find out the murder was committed by a misogynist male. Women murdering for revenge or greed is not terribly realistic (there may well be more female murderers in Christie's work than real ones in the UK at any given time) but ... it's interesting to read about.

Assholes never are complex, imho. They want to do evil, and they do it. Very straightforward.

Decent people, on the other hand, are much more interesting. They want things, but don't do them, because they have duties that their dreams might interfere with.

Let's take Dumbledore. He's in love with Gellert Grindelwald but cannot follow his heart because he has a duty to society. Cue inner torment and conflict. Or Harry. Harry is afraid of fighting Voldemort, but still does it because he cares about the people Voldemort would murder otherwise.

Decent people have internal conflict, which makes them interesting to write about. They have to weigh what they themselves want against what others need them to do.

Evil people don't have an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other, they have a devil on every shoulder. And that's boring.

(The case of having an angel on both shoulders is purely hypothetical, as humans, due to our animal nature, have self-preservation instincts, and some selfishness is just built in. A very privileged person might be able to do what is good for others without compromising their own wellbeing too much, but .. well, just look at J.K. Rowling and the price she pays for standing up for women. I am sure she had some conflict about whether to risk the male violence that would follow her standing up for women. Even if she has an angel on both shoulders, one angel would have told her to keep her children safe, so ... conflict.)

Decent people are complex. Bad people are boring.

Morally grey people can be interesting as well, but those who just follow their selfish desires all the time? Booooring.

Great point. Every asshole I've ever met (all men, natch) thought they were so cool and interesting. Wow, you abuse women. Totally original and fascinating. Nah, man, you're just another boring asshole.

Decent people are complex. Bad people are boring.

Morally grey people can be interesting as well, but those who just follow their selfish desires all the time? Booooring.

That's actually so true and so rarely said.

Yeh I think this is actually why people are interested in serial killers because it’s a projection of their own inner conflict: how could a human being, like me, possibly do this? Why would they want to and how could they deal with the inner conflict?

The reality is they have no conscience which is why they are serial killers in the first place

[+] [Deleted] 10 points
[–] spaghettiforhair autogynophobe 8 points

I study moral philosophy, and there is no equivalent philosophical discipline for "immoral" philosophy because if just that— it's boring as fuck. There is much more to discuss and explore in terms of morality, what defines morality, what goes into defining morality, and why people have morals to begin with. Kant spends much less time on hypothetical imperatives than he does on categorical imperatives because what makes categorical imperatives interesting is that it is not often in our own immediate self-interest to follow them.

You could write about how immoral people create moral philosophies that help them justify immoral behaviors, without realizing what they're doing. The field of moral philosophy is bound to have an awful lot of immorality in it. Because people don't usually think of themselves as bad people.

Bad people are boring unless they are fabulous levels of Disney villain.

I know their conflict doesn't last long and they are just vain or whatever, but goodness is Hellfire from Hunchback of Notre Dame a showstopper!

Totally love this comment btw, JK Rowling is the closest thing to an angel we have but it's also understandable that she would be scared considering the amounts of male threats of violence she's gotten. I respect her so much...a bit of a "simp" because any time someone says anything negative or calls her a "T*RF" my hackles raise.

Also in almost every popular true crime case I can think of people make out these barely functioning men were “so clever!!!! Ingenious!!!” When they are literally the dumbest people alive 99% of the time it’s usually just shoddy police work that kept them from being caught

Yeah.

Talking of crime, nonviolent crimes seem to require a lot more intelligence. (Especially those where money is involved, because men really care about money. Forging the business books to steal money without anyone noticing sounds like it requires a lot more skill than a man murdering a woman. I mean, it's easy for men to murder women by brute force, they don't even have to plan or use poison or anything. And also, women are socialized to be easy, trusting victims to male violence, while people are actively encouraged to be distrustful of everyone where money is involved. Granny is told she mustn't object to a TIM carer helping her with bathing, but when it comes to money, she is told to not trust anyone calling her and claiming to be her grandchild. Basically, it's "no man would pretend to be a woman just to get to rape you", but "Lots of people would pretend to be your grandchild to get your money!")

[–] shewolfoffrance 10 points Edited

Yep. Especially when you consider really famous serial killers like Ted Bundy who committed their crimes in the 70s and 80s before the serial killer was a staple of pop culture and forensic techniques were comparatively crude. In fact, Ted Bundy is a bit of an outlier, since he actually was fairly intelligent, personable, and stable (outwardly, anyway).

Most serial killers are just dumb misogynists who are violent towards women because they really, really like being violent towards women. The extent of their "genius" begins and ends with exactly one thing: picking marginalized victims. And that's partly why Ted Bundy was caught--his preferred victims were actually middle-class college students whose friends and family would prod the police into action.

Its why so many serial killers chose prostitutes as victims. They were already living on the fringes of society--often drug-addicted or estranged from their families so less likely to be reported missing. And if they were reported missing the police would take their disappearances less seriously.

YH was really into serial killer documentaries when I was 14-16 the common denominator was they just straight up hated women . The outliers were the gay ones and female ones obviously , but the most high profile serial killers were just vengeful misogynists.

[+] [Deleted] 36 points

I’ve been reading about them since I was a teenager, never fascinated about their inner workings etc, more trying to fathom what they all had in common, and all of them had a weird relationship with their mother, and generally the women they killed resembled the younger version of their mother. It’s mommy issues taken to the nth degree.

What always gets me is how many people say “oh he was quite charming, and handsome”. Not one of the guys I’ve seen whether in photos or interviews come across as anything but creepy and odd looking. Even Ted Buddy only looked passable at certain angles.

IIRC psychopaths were found to actually experience a much narrower spectrum of emotions in addition to their inability to feel empathy. So not only is their emotional experience blunted, they also don't have the capacity to put themselves in someone else's shoes. They are literally less complex than the average person.

Really interesting thread. I don't consume this kind of content at all, but did listen to 'Dirty John'--I guess my interest in that, aside from just the story itself, was understanding how otherwise apparently sensible women were sucked in by this guy.

I'm remembering some news snippet about a recent mass murderer mentioning that he'd put together a spreadsheet of other mass killings with a lot of details about them, presumably a) to learn 'what they did right' and b) so he could 'increase his kill rate', and the narrator described it as 'PhD level' research. I was appalled at that--no, this is obsessive collecting of detail, that has nothing to do with 'research' at all, let alone 'PhD level' research. This behaviour does not require intelligence of any kind.

Yeah, now that I think of it, with male serial killers it's always a sex thing. Can't think of one off of top of my head where it was vanilla crazy, it's always a sex thing.

Sidenote - I watched the Netflix Dahmer series (unnecessarily gory, but at least they tried to stick to the facts) and was so disappointed they did not show Dahmer admitting violent pornography escalated his progression into murdering his victims. He and Bundy both admitted pornography playing a role, at least somewhat using their infamy for good, but media just loves it slide over that.

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