“Creepiness is a lack of both physical attractiveness and outgoing personality”

Yeah? How many women have met conventionally-attractive and outgoing guys who are total creeps? I know I have.

to me creepiness is a lack of social skills and awareness, combined with not accepting boundaries

Not respecting boundaries is the very definition of creepiness in my book!

My family is full of people who have autism and none of them are incels... I’m not thrown off by shyness or quirkiness — but not respecting boundaries and not taking, “no” for an answer or even, “not yet” — way uncool!

[–] margerydaw 20 points Edited

People men who try to psychoanalyze women to justify why they get called creepy are exemplifying the actual reason why they, in fact, are creepy. Dudes, it’s not your looks or your personalities. It’s the way you otherize women into predictable patterns of behavior that you can study to figure out how to exploit. It’s that you don’t see women as people but as a thing you want to have, and you’d rather order them from Amazon but you can’t and that clearly annoys you.

Yep. I’ve also met plenty of ugly and/or socially awkward men who weren’t creepy at all.

Yeah that explanation is way too pat. There are plenty of ugly, shy men that I have encountered who would not count as actual creeps. At least on a surface level, I don't see their porn.

Bullshit do shy women have no problems finding a man if they want one.

Where does this article get off positioning women as somehow coasting through the world of human relations on easy mode?

Of course this isn't true. There are plenty of lonely, shy people of both sexes, who never manage to make that kind of connection.

And lonely, shy women neither feel entitled to sex nor go on terrorist rampages. Incels do both.

One of my takeaways from this article was that incels getting plastic surgery to look better don't always feel better about themselves or their lives afterward. They get what they want and they're still dysphoric/dysmorphic/angry/sad.

Sounds familiar.

I feel kind of bad for the main guy profiled in the story. He's gone down a rabbit hole of surgery. He has an addiction and he needs help for that, not more face fixes. As for the doctor, he's the one who did surgeries on Pixee Fox so that tells me all I need to know there. His medical ethics seem to tread a fine line.

I wonder when these boys and men will realize that looks aren't enough to fix a chronically shitty personality or outright mental illness. Eliot Rodger is my go-to example. He was actually a nice-looking guy, downright handsome in a boy-band way in some photos. Looks alone shouldn't have been enough to make him an incel. The guy was a creepy, hateful psychopath and that's probably what women picked up on when they wanted little to do with him. Some of it comes through in his eyes, just in photos, so he must have been a scary person to be around in real life.

Elliot Rogers is a great example. Conventionally attractive boy band looks. It was entirely his failure of personality and character that undermined him.

Didn’t he actually fail to ask any women on dates ever and just stalk around glowering hatefully at them?

If he had ever asked women on dates he’d probably have been successful. Like you say, he was good looking, and not all girls have a creep radar.

Oh here we go. How many men around have anything but extremely ordinary personalities to go with their extremely ordinary looks? And the usual BS excuse for incels that they’re shy or autistic. No they’re not, they’re repellent misogynists. They are enraged that they’re not getting sex on demand, and use their supposed ugliness as an excuse.

It's interesting how men in particular have gotten into self-diagnosing autism in hopes of claiming that their creepiness should be accepted because they "can't help it." Never mind that many of us know actual autistic guys who are not creepy, although alas, that is not guarantee there won't be a correlation sometimes.

Yes! This has been a thing for years, now. Even back in the We Hunted the Mammoth/Manboobz days, there was much eye-rolling (from men and women alike) on the site about slimy creeps claiming autism as their excuse, or actual autistic men who obviously weren’t in the least distressed about their mental state, seeing it as a free pass.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. I don't think that conventionally attractive men get away with THAT much, and I don't think conventionally unattractive men have it THAT bad.

Who hasn’t known downright ugly men who’ve had no great difficulty finding partners? They don’t even have to have sparkling personalities. The bar is set so damn low, any incels whining about how haaaaaaard they have it are not making the point they think they are. As for the ones who “transition” ... 🤮

I'm solely referring to the highlighted part as the "truth bomb" (re: why incels decide to transition and how they get away with oppressing women with the help of the left).

Everything in that linked comment is wrong wrong wrong until the highlighted sentence. These incels do think that by becoming women they’ll be able to “get away with” a lot more. And frankly they’re right. They mistake the reason why, which is the immense cultural pressure TRAs have pushed in the last few years, leaving a fear of being labeled a “transphobic”. They think it’s because women actually have it easy, and that they’ve successfully become women.

The commenter is wrong about creepiness. Creepiness is based on a fear and uncertainty as to what, if anything, a person should be afraid of. It’s not just an unattractive shy guy minding his own business at the bar. It’s the guy who isn’t acting like a complete nut or someone about to kill you, but still not respecting boundaries, being overly pursuant, intrusive, overly familiar, mildly aggressive and having a disregard for the other person’s sense of comfort and security.

Basically, if you’re worried about coming off as a creep, chances are you aren’t one because you don’t want to make someone uncomfortable and you’re observant enough to know that you could and thus need to not be any of those things.

I was just going to post something along the same lines. "Creepiness is the most repellent quality to women, and it results from a combination of two things: lack of physical attractiveness and lack of an attractive outgoing personality." Yeah no, it results from men lacking empathy and coming across like the hateful, potentially violent and obsessive stalkers they are.

Exactly. The ines who see a woman as a person are like, “how to approach without making her nervous. How to get her to like me” not ‘how to make her talk to me or how to get sex”

I had a somewhat similar definition of creepiness:

creepiness results from the intuition that the guy is abusive or will be abusive, when superficially they aren't.

until the highlighted sentence

Actually that was the part that I was referring to as the truth bomb, not the theory on "creepiness". I kind of wish I had cropped out the majority of that response now because that wasn't the point I was trying to bring up.

[–] RawSienna 7 points Edited


Once again, men can’t imagine that women DO NOT THINK LIKE THEY DO.

Creepiness isn’t based on lack of looks or lack of outgoing personality; creepiness is violating boundaries and being inappropriate. WOMEN DO NOT WANT TO SPEND TIME WITH SOMEONE WHO TELEGRAPHS DANGER.


I never think a man is a creep because he is shy. I don't know where they even got this idea.

Men feel less discomfort thinking of themselves as shy than as being entitled, sexist and poor judges of what women will tolerate, which is what being creepy actually is. Being shy is a fairly neutral trait. Trying to railroad a woman into intimacy and failing because you lack the social skills to pull it off is bad for your self esteem from every angle.

[–] larkaraptor 6 points Edited

Creepiness is the most repellent quality to a woman, and it results from ... lack of physical attractiveness and lack of an attractive outgoing personality.

Not true for me. For me, creepiness results from the intuition that the guy is abusive or will be abusive, when superficially they aren't.

[–] [Deleted] 4 points Edited

Well — it perpetuates the myth that if you’re an attractive woman, then it doesn’t matter if you’re “shy” or have antisocial tendencies... It rather contradicts itself in noting earlier than attractive men can find love even if he is a criminal or has a shitty personality — but later on make it seem as if it’s rational for incels to become Trans-women in order to attract partners. But the thing is — these are the same incels who harass and harangue lesbians and call for the rape and murder of “terfs” and even “cis women”. They then become Trans-cels instead of incels — with the same misogyny, bitterness and hostility towards those who they feel entitled to date.

Based on this logic — why do these same incels not become attractive men via the magic of plastic surgery instead of engaging in the far more risky process of becoming a Trans-woman? Is it only because insurance and society will support coming out as Trans — but kinda sneers at cosmetic surgery for purposes of simply improving one’s appearance?

[–] larkaraptor 0 points Edited

insurance and society will support coming out as Trans — but kinda sneers at cosmetic surgery for purposes of simply improving one’s appearance?

Reconstructive surgery is supposed to be correcting some kind of congenital defect or abnormality, and it's generally covered by insurance, vs cosmetic surgery which is not.

So covering surgeries to make someone look like the opposite sex seems to involve the "born into the wrong body" idea - that for them, their body's sexual characteristics are a congenital defect. Or that puberty, was an abnormal process for them due to their state of mind.

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