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89 comments

[–] goatsauce 96 points (+97|-1)

There was an episode of Orange is the New Black where Laverne Cox's character is running around trying to get birth control or estrogen off women around the prison because they denied his normal estrogen prescription (I don't remember why, it seemed contrived). At the time I kept thinking, this seems nuts. You won't die? You chopped off your nuts so you're not producing testosterone anymore, but your body still produces hormones from other sources, just not the ones you want? The only way you'll die is if you kill yourself, so just...don't kill yourself. All of this is self inflicted.

[–] BluecatSarah 50 points (+50|-0)

As I recall the whole panic was that Sophia would lose his girlish looks...

[–] chromodorisrex 58 points (+58|-0)

Damn that was another pre-peak peak moment. I remember the scenes of him pressuring his wife to smuggle hormone pills into prison for him, and her angrily refusing to risk it just so he could keep his “lady curves”. I remember thinking... f this guy. It was so selfish on its face and the over-the-top suffering acting he was doing really rubbed me the wrong way. Facial hair isn’t life threatening and it’s wrong to hold everyone in your life hostage with suicide threats.

[–] [Deleted] 35 points (+35|-0)

The sparse scenes with his wife were prime trans widowhood content, and it seemed to whoosh over even the heads of those who wrote her

[–] LOriginedumonde 22 points (+22|-0) Edited

I’ll never understand how so many transgender people, especially children, are allowed to threaten suicide with no repercussions. They’re supposed to do a mandatory psychiatric hold in an inpatient facility for people who express suicidal ideation. I guess like everything else the regular rules do not apply to trans people.

[–] questioningtw 17 points (+18|-1) Edited

I remember that episode and I really liked that they did portray Sofia as being very selfish there...and was even told by Sofia's wife that they where being selfish. Actually, I really liked that the show didn't do the whole Sofia is a total victim thing, and was even called out by his son.

Yes and no? We were supposed to like Sophia’s character so we sympathized with Sophia when his wife and child inevitably called him out on his selfishness. We were supposed to empathize with the pain of choosing between risking losing his family by finally being his “true self” and living a lie. Yes his wife & son were portrayed as sympathetic characters too but I really felt we were supposed to like Sophia and understand he did what he had to do by transitioning at all costs.

[–] viragoeternal 7 points (+7|-0)

lol you should've seen the tumblr discourse over his 'abusive' wife.

[–] questioningtw 4 points (+4|-0)

REALLY?! Ugh, I thought it was pretty obvious the way they framed the scene that you where supposed to be on the wife's side.

[–] sensusquaeram 84 points (+84|-0) Edited

I'll extend this claim to surgery.

When trans people say their confirmation surgeries are "lifesaving" it's an ableist insult. Many of us would be dead without critically necessary, literally life-saving invasive surgery. These procedures are expensive, risky, and have long recovery arcs, and we would not be here without them.

[–] hexchromosome 75 points (+75|-0)

I remember a group of 'non-binary' women and 'trans men' were complaining about the wait-list for mastectomies because preference was given to women who had breast cancer. They were saying the same thing about being denied lifesaving medical care. I already knew they were a self-centered bunch, but my jaw was on the floor at that.

[–] ramani 38 points (+38|-0)

I saw a TiM (from England, I think) post this on Twitter. He was called out for it, but he never backed down! It was like watching a sociopath in real time!

[–] JustWantToUnderstand 8 points (+10|-2) Edited

Abigail Thorn? The Princess of Terf Island who ate Contrapoints while they were still alive and skinned her face off to wear as a mask? That English TIM?

[–] Jellyfishes 45 points (+45|-0)

Even worse: in trans people's case there was never anything wrong with their body, but when they get the surgery they develop health issues, like fistula, necrosis, hair inside urethra, uterus atrophy, arm injury (for TIFs).

[–] sensusquaeram 21 points (+22|-1)

Exactly. Confirmation surgery is experimental and high-risk by definition.

[–] EvaDemeter [OP] 37 points (+37|-0)

I agree completely, and also with surgeries that improve quality of life. Plenty of people can't function without joint replacement, for example, yet we're led to believe that trans surgery is more important than someone's well being and ability to work and participate in activities they love. Because of course, these people would kill themselves and people in excruciating pain are just not important.

[–] sensusquaeram 24 points (+24|-0)

Mobility is a hugely important health issue -- the ability to move safely, perform activities of daily living, transfer in/out of a wheelchair (if possible). And, like you said, effective pain management -- also hugely important. There should be no argument about the priority these issues already have in healthcare.

And yet, here we are.

[–] Tnetennba 15 points (+15|-0)

Hah! I wish it was important to the medical industry. They brush off my inability to walk properly with disturbing ease.

[–] shewolfoffrance 9 points (+9|-0)

I read a few tweets from trans identified people during the lockdown about how massively unfair it was that their cosmetic surgeries were postponed indefinitely. The narcissism was...well, not unbelievable exactly, but still irritating.

[–] NotEnoughPages 62 points (+62|-0)

I have type 1 and I second this.

[–] Mother-of-Rats 19 points (+19|-0)

Hello fellow type 1! I second this too...or third it maybe.....

[–] Eris55 12 points (+12|-0)

Me three of forth, whatever🤣 fucking injections 4 to 8 times a day, every day, blood testing 5 to 12 times every day just to keep breathing, with the threat of organ failure, amputation, blindness amongst a host of other associated issues. In the range of 10 to 30 years of our lifespans. Being just a few of the side effects of high blood sugar. And these asshats are taking injections that will actually physically harm them, and screaming they'll die if they don't get them, makes you nearly homicidal hearing them whine, doesn't it!!! ...I've just been on the rollercoaster. Feeling a little touchy on this subject right now😭

My husband is type 1, so I empathize! Between the insulin, other diabetes-related meds, pump supplies (if we can afford them), CGM (if we can afford it), and test strips... it adds up. It makes me rage that American health insurance companies would rather hand out Lupron to kids than make well-managed type 1 diabetes affordable and not a debt sentence.

[–] shewolfoffrance 3 points (+3|-0)

I know several people who are type 1. It's expensive, inconvenient and time-consuming. AGPs can eff off.

[–] MadSea 49 points (+49|-0)

Oh man, that’s going to get a ban. Not allowed to say things that are true over there.

[–] Freyja Bring the 😂💩 33 points (+33|-0)
[–] Jellyfishes 20 points (+20|-0)

Eww, the comments are all terrible.

[–] haruspex 17 points (+17|-0)

You were not kidding. The willful ignorance and pandering is maddening.

[–] RisingUp 3 points (+5|-2)

The comments made me mad but now I think about it, I see where the commenters are coming from. They all think cross-sex hormones actually treat trans people's mental health problems. Health insurance absolutely should cover mental health treatment.

The information the commenters are missing is that cross-sex hormones and trans surgeries are utterly ineffective mental health interventions. Most of us here know this. The OP of that post knows it too, or intuits it or has heard TIMs talking about 'titty skittles' or has had suicide threats used as a manipulation tactic on them before - they've got a better bullshit detector than the commenters. I really doubt the OP would have posted a similar rant against antidepressants, but most of the comments are reacting as if they had.

[–] MadSea 9 points (+9|-0)

Predictable. I imagine a lot of bullying went down, as usual.

I cannot wait till this cult implodes.

[–] BeninBronze 49 points (+54|-5) Edited

It’s insane how much the TRAs weaponize suicide as if it’s an inevitable outcome caused by an external force. And they are so inconsistent! Are trans people commuting suicide because the people around them don’t accept them or is it because of the “mismatch” between their body and brain? It’s just an excuse to manipulate people to act a certain way around then and also to justify the grotesque surgeries and hormone therapies they choose to undergo.

A diabetic or cancer patient would literally die without medical treatment because their body would fail despite their will to live. I recently had a family member take their own life and through the painful aftermath of it all, it’s become clear to me that suicide is ultimately a choice that one makes. People with real diseases don’t have a choice.

[–] yarnfiend13 30 points (+30|-0)

it's especially disgusting when they egg "trans kids" on to weaponize suicide as well. just vile

[–] NotCis 12 points (+22|-10)

I can't agree with that. Mental illness, including suicidality, is not a choice. Major depression and other mental disorders are deadly, treatment doesn't always work (and some anti-depressants even INCREASE the risk of suicide), and suicide is a result of that illness. I'm very sorry you lost a family member to suicide.

[–] Tnetennba 23 points (+29|-6) Edited

Hard disagree. Your rhetoric 100% supports what TRAs are saying. Yes, it's absolutely devastating and it's incredibly difficult to seek and receive appropriate help, but it's still a choice. No otherworldly external force is making people kill themselves. It's harsh, it's ugly, it's blunt, it's "mean" but it's the truth.

Edit: one of the hardest mental health lessons to learn is that you CANNOT outsource your resiliency to other people. You can't just deny any responsibility on your part. You can ask for support and advice, but you cannot rely on other people to do the hard work for you.

And if it truly ISN'T a choice, every single person with a depression diagnosis should immediately be put under 24/7 surveillance in a hospital somewhere. They might suddenly die at any time and we have no idea why, because apparently it isn't a choice.

I just think about the pedophiles that kill themselves before their trials. Was that a choice? Women who kill themselves before they could be captured by enemy forces, was that a choice? Or were these people so out of control of their actions that SOMEHOW they ended up dead?

[–] WynningIt 6 points (+6|-0)

That doesn't make any sense. Depression is a spectrum. Some people with depression are suicidal, some have suicidal ideation and some have neither. I had debilitating depression for nearly a decade. I never attempted suicide in that time, because I wasn't suicidal. It's not because i just chose not to.

And just because someone can chose suicide for reasons other than depression (such as your examples), that doesn't then mean a depressed person just chooses it. I think we need to get away from this idea that suicide is ALWAYS the result of depression.

[–] TinyAngryLesbian 22 points (+25|-3)

From the perspective of someone who has attempted suicide, I have to disagree with you here. The depression and anxiety I was experiencing may not have been within my control but the decision to try to kill myself was just that, a decision. If suicide were an inevitable thing for people who are distressed, how can you possibly help them? Yes certain treatments may not help and can in fact make the urge to kill oneself greater, but the desire to die is very different than the active decision to kill yourself. That is why depressed people, as well as gender dysphoric people, need a healthy balance of therapy (that does not couch reality to them) and a supportive network of friends and family who do the same.

We can have sympathy for people who are struggling with suicide without pretending it poses the same immediate threat to one's life that lack of insulin does to a type I diabetic or someone battling breast cancer.

[–] BeninBronze 19 points (+19|-0)

Thank you for your condolences.

I realize that the way I talked about suicide came off as too harsh. I certainly acknowledge that bad mental health, depression, and trauma can cause a person to feel that they don’t have another choice. It just grinds my gears how much TRAs use suicide as a tool to further their agenda instead of putting their resources into suicide prevention for the vulnerable people in their community.

[–] NotCis 17 points (+19|-2)

I agree completely. Using suicide as a manipulative tool is a whole other ballgame and it's awful.

[–] Tnetennba 13 points (+17|-4)

It's not too harsh, people are simply too icked out by these discussions to look at them critically.

It's a choice. That's the very ugly, very disturbing truth.

[–] shewolfoffrance 7 points (+8|-1)

The thing is, people who threaten suicide to manipulate their families do need mental health intervention. They don't need to get whatever they want, right when they want it.

[–] bornwithovaries 19 points (+21|-2)

I've been suicidal. I attempted one of those times. It's a choice.

Especially in situations like when a man wipes out his entire family and then kills himself to evade responsibility.

I hate the phrase "died by suicide." Suicide is not a ghost hovering over you who does the stabbing or shooting or pill dunking or whatever. YOU did that.

People will get angry that I said all this, and that's fair. It's how I feel regardless.

Who could possibly downvote this?

[–] BlackCirce 1 points (+3|-2)

Probably those with “fake diseases” that make them either intermittently or constantly consider suicide

[–] NotCis 31 points (+31|-0)

Is there anyone who trans extremists are NOT pissing off these days? They're even pissing off each other.

[–] EllaWashington 28 points (+28|-0)

Does this person also mention the now-ridiculous wait times to get an appointment to see an endocrinologist for their diabetes?

My stepson's mom was once 20 minutes late bringing him to an appointment (t1d), and we had to wait another four months to get him seen.

The waiting room was filled with trans propaganda and several 'trans-kids'.

[–] Mother-of-Rats 12 points (+12|-0)

I guess there’s more money is giving male children female hormones and female children male hormones. I mean c’mon the doc has to get the money to buy his second yacht SOMEWHERE!

*this is firmly tongue in cheek. The vast majority of endos are in it because they love how fucked up the endocrine system is, the money is just the icing on the cake.

I would lose my god-damn mind. It’s already incredibly difficult to find a good endo who truly understands type 1 diabetes and how to help kids and families manage it well. It’s bad enough having to fight the type 2’s for appointments. My husband is type 1, and I fear having to deal with this should one of our future children get diagnosed.

[–] Radical 25 points (+25|-0)

I agree.

As a person who was born with a disability and inherited health issues, I also take offense at their favourite phrase "born in the wrong body". It's such a slap in the face to everyone who was born with severe birth defects and health issues. Especially because it's coming from people who have healthy, non-disabled bodies.

They think they do, but they don't understand what it's like to live with a body whose sole purpose seems to be to make your life as miserable and painful as possible.

[–] yikesforever 19 points (+24|-5)

If someone has extremely bad gender dysphoria, I'm sure that medicially transitioning might save their life, but those cases are extremely rare.

But gender dysphoria != trans.

Basically anyone can claim the trans label and get some instant 'vulnerable' status.

Also gender dysphoria isn't even classified as a mental illness at this point, the world health org classifies it as something like sexual dysfunction.

So the claim is just wild.

[–] Kevina 21 points (+21|-0)

IMO "gender dysphoria" makes no sense. It's about the same as me wishing I was 6ft tall and getting painfully upset that I'm not. And I suspect that I experience forms of "gender dysphoria" on a regular basis. I just deal with it. For example, was at the grocery earlier and the young woman ahead of me had on really tight pants. She had a nice rear that was on full view given how tight the pants were, but point is that this type of things makes me extremely uncomfortable because I personally do not wish to be viewed as a sex object, so there's no f*cking way in a million years I'd wear something like that. And it makes me uncomfortable to the point that I'm uncomfortable when other women do it, and makes me want to crawl even further into the baggy men's clothes that I prefer.

But, I certainly would never tell her that or expect her to change so that I could be more comfortable. I am not going to literally die because the girl at the shop had on hot pants. Nor am I going to allow myself to become so dissociated or uncomfortable with my female body that I would want to start chopping bits off. Because that would be insane. I'm a woman, and I'll never be 6ft tall. It is what it is, and all in all I'm super happy and thankful that I don't suffer from anything like type 1 diabetes. These people need to get over themselves, 9 out of 10 of them will regret it in the end (just my opinion).

[–] Tnetennba 9 points (+9|-0)

Nobody would EVER say that about the worst case of anorexia that isn't responding to regular treatment. It's complete and utter bullshit. Suddenly every single TRA is going to be that "extreme" exception.

[–] shewolfoffrance 8 points (+8|-0)

And I believe anorexia has one of, if not the, highest rate of death for mental illnesses.

How on earth is Gender Dysphoria not a mental illness?

[–] bornwithovaries 17 points (+17|-0)

The DSM is a political document. Mass shooter rage is not a mental illness, codependency is. Guess which sex is most likely to experience either.

[–] Medusa 9 points (+9|-0)

I'm adding this topic to my "future threads I want to see or make" pile - the concept of "codependency" deserves critical analysis and discussion, especially from a feminist perspective.

It is. It always has been. But you can't push for civil rights for a group whose only common thread is that they have a mental illness.

[–] eris 2 points (+2|-0)

Because they have connections in the WHO.

Time from 2019: "In several countries around the world, the process of medically transitioning gender is based on the now-outdated ICD framework, which classifies being transgender as a “gender identity disorder” under the category of “mental disorders.” In Japan for example, the law requires those seeking to transition gender to have a diagnosis of “gender identity disorder” and to be sterilized before their new gender identity can be reflected on official documentation. U.N. member states, of which Japan is one, are now responsible for putting ICD-11 into practice at a national level, a lengthy process that has been given a target deadline of January 1, 2022."

[–] questioningtw 18 points (+18|-0)

This has always bothered me, even when I was more of a TRA, it bothered the hell out of me that a lot of trans people seemed to think that they couldn't live without transtioning NOW. And now with puberity blockers a lot of trans people are acting like a child going through the puberity they don't want is hellish. What gets me is I was born with a birth defect where my neck is fused and I don't have great balance and it affects my hearing and even my eyesight. If I had thousands of dollars I could get surgery, but I don't and wouldn't want to risk my life anyway. There are also a shit ton of people that need surgerys that they can't afford. Why in the world should people that have perfectly healthy bodies, get top priority?

[–] shewolfoffrance 8 points (+8|-0)

Yes, yes, and yes! So much medical research is profit-oriented. I hate that people with mental health problems aren't getting the help they actually need, and that people who legitimately need mastectomies and endocrinologist's help have to wait in line behind "trans kids."

[–] ditchwitch 13 points (+13|-0)

The lifesaving treatment they need is therapy to get to the root of their obsessive thinking about their bodies. Unfortunately it's more complicated & less profitable than jabbing yourself with a needle. I hope someday we humans can get our priorities in order.

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