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108 comments

[–] DontDoxxMe [speaking as mod] 58 points (+60|-2) - sticky

Please stay civil and empathetic towards our detrans and desisted sisters, nieces, and friends. Civility is in the rules, I’m personally asking for empathy. Not a single one of us aren’t products of our environment, our upbringing and cultures. Not a single one of us. We have all been force-fed the pain of patriarchy and I fault only those predatory men who prey on our sisters’ pain. Fuck the doctors who do this, not hurt women who turn to them in distress.

[+] [Deleted] 33 points (+33|-0)
[–] Jack_the_Lass 67 points (+75|-8) Edited

What the fuck did they expect? That you could just remove a healthy organ and all the other organs just stay in place?

Fuck these people, my best friend recently had to have a non-elective hysterectomy for medical reasons and it’s nothing to celebrate.

Editing my comment: This apparently was posted by a detrans female and I want to clarify my "fuck these people" was not to her specifically but to the trans culture that celebrates this stuff

[–] Nasrin 38 points (+38|-0) Edited

I want to know who these doctors are performing these hysterectomies and where it happens you aren't at least given a sheet of potential surgical and post operative potential complications and often you have at least one sit down with the surgeon before they schedule you to discuss everything...

Is this massive medical malfeasance? Is this people so excited about their uwu post op "gender reveal" that they blank out the doctor and the first page of pretty much every search engine on the Internet?

ETA: They are now listed as "25 year old detrans female. Lesbian not queer. Post mastectomy/hysterectomy. Tweets about radical feminism, art, video games, veganism, LGBT stuff, ED stuff."

[–] Jack_the_Lass 13 points (+14|-1)

can you share the twitter handle? not sure if thats against the rules. i 100% support detrans women. as we should, there's going to be tsunami of them soon

[–] crodish 13 points (+13|-0) Edited

Most tweets can be googled even without the usernames, just google ["portion of the tweet" twitter] and it should come up unless it's been deleted or made private... or at least that's how I've been doing my own totally not stalking

Edit: Archive link of the thread

https://archive.is/LrW49

[–] Nasrin 9 points (+9|-0) Edited

They're listed as @growinThroughIt and appear to have been detrans for about two years so since 23.

ETA: Per rules it is case by case "Twitter names will be handled on a case by case basis by Radfemmery Mods." So I'll delete if necessary.

[–] spinningintelllect 33 points (+35|-2)

I think that's a little harsh; she's not celebrating.

These young women have been brainwashed into a dangerous medical experiment, and they will have to live with the physical consequences for the rest of their lives. Not us. Them. And this woman seems terrified.

[–] DaughtersOfLilith 29 points (+29|-0)

We are trained to listen to the experts, to trust the professionals. Even with they do us wrong. It's a really hard habit to unlearn.

[–] Jack_the_Lass 14 points (+17|-3)

You're right, I am being harsh. However, people are having elective medical surgery to remove healthy organs, a harsh response is warranted.

That's not to say I don't feel deeply empathetic and concerned with young women who are being gaslit into thinking they are "men." I do. It disturbs me to my core.

[–] [Deleted] 2 points (+3|-1)

When you're indoctrinated by a cult and believe everything they say (and that any dissent is wrong/phobic proved with pseudoscience) + you are trained from birth to believe medical professionals, a harsh response to women who are suffering is not warranted.

[–] EvaDemeter 24 points (+24|-0)

To be fair, half the women I speak to don't know this, and many of them have had medically necessary hysterectomies. They don't inform women, it's up to us to do the research.

[–] IrishTheFrenchie 37 points (+37|-0)

Why can a teenaged "trans" female have an elective hysterectomy but a 22 year old female cannot have elective tubal ligation???

Someone please answer this.

[–] yikesforever 29 points (+29|-0)

trans is a magical status that bestows the haver with all sorts of privileges

[–] pennygadget 12 points (+12|-0)

trans is a magical status that bestows the haver with all sorts of privileges

According to TRAs, it also bestows children as young as two with the foresight to make life-altering decisions and be 110% certain that they won't regret said decisions as adults!

[–] [Deleted] 1 points (+1|-0)

Doesn't seem like a big privilege judging by the image posted.

[–] EvaDemeter 9 points (+9|-0)

Exactly what I was pondering. Some women are refused who have severe gyn diseases, but this is allowed?

[–] starstuff 6 points (+6|-0) Edited

GNC women are seen as threats to the patriarchy whether or not they're trans-identified, so it's apparently better not to let them reproduce and raise patriarchy-questioning children

[–] crodish 34 points (+35|-1) Edited

But honestly - how the fuck did they NOT know? Unless the doctors straight up don't explain ANYTHING to them, that doesn't sound possible at all since that could be grounds to sue the doctor for not doing their goddamn job.

Does legal paperwork with fine print and T&C and "I have read and understood these terms and declared my consent to the above procedures" just not fucking happen??

Like I'm sorry for the people who did the surgeries blindly, but really? Shocked pikachu.jpg. I'm being incredibly crass and insensitive right now but it always riles me up when these people say "nO oNe tOlD mE tHiS wOuLd hApPeN!"

She herself fucking googled it on goddamn Healthline! It's clearly searchable!

If anything it's more likely people trying repeatedly to warn them and then going, "LA LA LA TERF! FUCK YOU TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS! BIGOTS!!" Like this whole dIsCoUrSe about being gender critical and still no one understanding a goddamn thing. The seeds fell on dead ground and they blame the seeds.

Edit: Also please imagine a scenario where a person is told they have to go for surgery to remove a major organ, and they go "OKAY! :D" without asking ANY QUESTIONS about what the negatives outcomes are. "Oh no this will make you a real boy right quick!" "Alright, I'm satisfied with that vague answer!"

[–] BlackCirce 34 points (+34|-0)

I’m struggling with the same reactions. I feel badly for women who were lied to as teenagers and young adults that they could become men. It breaks my heart that they will have to live with these terrible consequences.

But on the other hand many of these young people openly participated in campaigns of hate towards anyone who questioned them. The doctors who said, hold up we can’t cut out an 18 year old’s whole ass reproductive system, they were deep sixed with the quickness. And it wasn’t only the medical establishment who participated it was the patients themselves who campaigned, and called, and tweeted so that these surgeries could continue unabated.

[–] crodish 19 points (+19|-0) Edited

Right?! I've seen so many articles about Therapist This or Doctor That getting harrassed over social media or fired / let go due to mob baying, all because they said "hold up this isn't right let's not jump to conclusions, there are real risks here!" But no they're TrANpHoBeS, they're LITERALLY KILLING TRANS PEOPLE, sack them!

And now the pot is boiling and the frog still hasn't realized it's too late...

[–] BlackCirce 35 points (+35|-0)

This is why we don’t let teenagers run shit. Teenagers are important, they are intelligent and they need some freedoms. But we cannot base policy decisions on the emotional appeals of teenagers alone. It’s normal to do things you regret when you are an adolescent. We can’t allow voluntary sterilization be one of those things.

I feel ambivalent about holding young people responsible for idiotic decisions they made when their brains weren’t fully developed. But the fact remains that a lot of lives have been ruined over this. People have lost jobs, had their reputations destroyed, faced vile threats, all to let these kids do what they want: sterilize themselves.

Much of the ire has fallen on older clinicians at the end of their careers. They don’t get to wait 25 years for this craze to be over. They’re going to die with people thinking they are genocidal transphobes, when all they tried to do is help suffering children. That has to be acknowledged.

It’s a bitter situation.

[–] TerfSedai 32 points (+32|-0)

Honestly if I imagine that scenario in your last paragraph, what comes to mind immediately is a child. A child is the sort of person who wouldn't ask follow-up questions and might assume the doctors know best.

Coupled with the data that kids with autism spectrum disorder both transition at higher rates and mature more slowly than their neurotypical peers, this scenario still doesn't seem out of place with a late-teens/early-20s kid at the center of it.

And the fact that NO ONE is protecting these young adults, even from their own actions, is deeply disturbing on so many levels.

[–] crodish 7 points (+7|-0)

Children would still need parental or legal guardian's consent though? How does that get handwaved then?

Like yeah I get it that the T targets people with autism / those people are higher risk for buying into this without asking, but urgh I'm so mad (not with you or the Twitter OP, just the fucking T movement, fuck ALL of them, I hate this movement so much)

This is why gatekeeping needs to be in place.

[–] salty-tomorrow 10 points (+10|-0)

They’ll explain it away saying if you have a problem with the fact that so many autistic children and young people are transitioning, you don’t believe autistic people should have bodily autonomy, that autistic people “can’t know themselves” or some shit.

It’s insidious.

[–] TerfSedai 7 points (+7|-0)

Oh yeah, I totally agree. Too many parents are either ignorant or moronic and the kids are paying the price.

[–] Srfthrowaway 2 points (+2|-0)

We'll there was that girl in Toronto, her glitter family told her to make herself homeless so she could go live in the youth shelter and get her treatments there. I'm traveling and don't have a link.

[–] LepistaNuda 2 points (+2|-0)

Funny you should say 'Legal Guardian' as there is a huge contingent of these kids who are adopted or in foster care of some kind. I seem to recall not long ago hearing that almost half of the kids in the pipe for this stuff in BC come from such backgrounds.

[–] scriptcrone 13 points (+13|-0)

The surgeon will have explained the most likely risks, though for a young, healthy woman, the main risks are likely those associated with the surgery itself. A healthy uterus from a nulliparous woman is quite a small organ and its anatomical relationships won't be disturbed, so the risk of long term complications from a well-planned, elective surgery would be low.

Much of the information about complications of hysterectomy will have come from women who had conditions that both led to hysterectomy and increased the risk of certain complications, or who were simply older, or who had the operation under emergency conditions (e.g., post-partum hemorrhage). A woman who had severe, long-term endometriosis might have adhesions between uterus and bladder or bowel, making the surgery more complicated and increasing the risk of damage to the organs. Or a woman with longstanding pelvic disease might be at greater risk of chronic pain afterwards. So it's important to pay attention to who has been studied, and what their baseline risk is.

[–] crodish 7 points (+7|-0)

I get your explanation, but I can't quite buy it / understand the logic behind it. "I'll just tell the patient about the immediate consequences, and let her deal with the long term ones when age catches up to her, oops" doesn't sound right.

[–] ProxyMusic 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

Not to defend the doctors - at all - but they probably couldn't tell her coz they really don't know. Even in the US with its lax standards and so many unethical doctors, it's very rare for HCPs to agree to do hysterectomies on women so young who've never had children. Normally, doctors will balk at removing reproductive organs - and thus options - of women in their teens, 20s and 30s, particularly if they have not had children or they've "only" had one or two children. Gender identity is the only reason that young women's reproductive organs are being removed on demand in the absence of any physical justification.

Most women who get hysterectomies are in their 40s and have had children already, and many have been suffering pelvic issues for years prior. Very little is known about the LT consequences of hysterectomy done in the late teens, early 20s for women who've never borne a child or even been pregnant. But what is true for women who had hystos at much older ages, after bearing children and for entirely different reasons won't necessarily be true for - or even apply to - these young women. As scriptcrone says, it's important to pay attention to who has been studied, and what their baseline risk is.

Also, the risks a nonparous woman who had a hysto circa age 20 might face down the line could well vary depending on whether she had it done vaginally or abdominally.

[–] BeachLover 10 points (+10|-0)

What is most shocking is that she didn't know she would go into menopause? How could any adult woman not know that???

[–] Luckystar 16 points (+16|-0)

I think you are really overestimating the level of public health education. A lot of women don't even realize that the pee hole and the period hole are different...

Another reason why the so-called inclusive language (like "individuals with a cervix") is so bad, something like 40% of women don't know what a cervix is

[–] EvaDemeter 10 points (+10|-0)

I just read a thread from another detrans woman, Helena (she does a lot of podcasts and is pretty public) about her lack of consent with testosterone and her reactions to that at the age she was when they did that to her. It was rather enlightening.

[–] crodish 4 points (+4|-0)

Would you have links? I'd really like to have a more rounded knowledge on this, myself.

[–] Eriomra 10 points (+10|-0) Edited

This is a bit unfair. This all TRA movement is a cult, we know that, they downplay the consequences of hormones and surgeries. If you are a women with mental health problems and you fell into the cult, of course you’re not going to search more than what has been told to you, because you trust these people. Removing the uterus is fun and will make you a man! You can definitely change sex, the only issues are these TERF who lie! Yes it sounds stupid from our side, but because we’re not in the cult.

For context, I’m super stressed with medical stuff and always google the shit out of everything. But regarding IUD I saw the blog of a famous doctor pro IUD and trusted everything he said. I went to the gynaecologist with absolutely no fear, and only learned after the procedure all the possible complications, the pain, etc. I was 23, I’m not stupid (I think) and I usually research. But I read something by someone I trusted and which fit into my worldview. Fortunately it’s just an IUD, and yes I hope that I would have been more cautious with removing an organ. But I can understand how you end up doing something which looks stupid from the outside.

[–] DontDoxxMe 2 points (+2|-0)

I love reading your measured comments Erioma. You’re definitely not stupid. Quite the contrary.

[–] Eriomra 2 points (+2|-0)

Ok, you definitely made my day, thank you for your comment! Almost got me blushing 😊

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[–] pennygadget 29 points (+30|-1)

One of the worst crimes of the trans movement is how it downplays & glamorizes drugs and surgeries (especially for developing child bodies). ALL surgeries are risky! Even minor shit like wisdom tooth removal shouldn't be taken lightly. But TRAs act as if major surgery is no different than getting a fucking manicure.

When my mother had a hysterectomy, the doctor had already tried every alternative that would have allowed her to keep her ovaries & uterus. Not because he cared about her having babies (she was postmenopausal). But because removing a WHOLE ASS INTERNAL ORGAN is a big deal with long term health ramifications. We recently learned that hysterectomies might be a factor in whether or not a woman develops dementia (which doesn't bode well for the girls having them in their 20s).

A healthy body is a blessing. And too many kids are being encouraged to throw that blessing away for entirely cosmetic reasons

[–] dixiechick547 10 points (+10|-0)

My sister and I had myomectomy surgery to remove fibroids in our uteruses. Though she was in her late forties with adult children no one ever recommended a hysterectomy. She was adamant about not having one. As a nurse she knows the uterus is more than just a baby box. Most credible surgeons would shy away from such surgeries on a healthy young woman. They didn’t want to do one on either of us despite the excruciating pain and heavy bleeding we both experienced. These quack doctors must be stopped.

[–] Elizabelch 7 points (+7|-0)

The dementia thing terrifies me. I only recently learned of the possible hysto-dementia connection. My mother has dementia. Granted, so did both her parents and a grandparent, but my mother developed it at an earlier age. Guess what surgery she and I have in common?

I don't regret my hysto - well, not completely anyway. I wish I'd known more about long-term effects. I wish I'd known more about what options were available to treat the problems I was having and whether those would have been practical solutions at the time (now, they almost certainly would be the first line of treatment).

I wish I'd known that I should improve my core strength before surgery, and work on it more after being cleared to return to exercise, so my back wouldn't go bad less than a year after surgery because of weakened muscles. I know multiple women who've had the same bad-back issue within a year of their hysto, and if any of you ever have to have a hysto, I urge you to do physical therapy, Pilates with a good instructor, something, leading up to and then after the surgery to keep your back and abs strong.

I wish I'd known that my hormone levels would drop to abnormally low levels even for post-menopausal women, and that it would become a struggle to supplement testosterone because insurance would stop covering it. Estrogen is no problem, but apparently the body doesn't use estrogen well if there's no testosterone around, so increasing estrogen is useless in that case.

I wish I'd known I'd have pelvic floor problems later. Maybe not entirely due to the hysto, but it didn't help. I wish I'd known the scar tissue would build up inside my abdomen and cause pain and problems that can't be treated without more surgery to break up the scar tissue (which would then result in the return of scar tissue after THAT surgery).

Don't avoid hysterectomy if it's medically necessary and the best treatment, but if it's not an emergency and you have time to ask questions and investigate, please do so. Too many doctors seem to think that unless your uterus has a baby in it, or you're planning to grow a baby in it, it might as well be your appendix or a hangnail or whatever.

If any girls/women who are pre-trans or trans are reading this: If you feel you must transition and you're not going to reconsider that, please consider keeping your reproductive organs. There are other ways to ensure infertility or stop periods. Please don't rush into removal of reproductive organs. You can't undo it. You don't know whether you'll be forever glad you had surgery, have problems but be able to manage them, or have major issues or complications afterward. Learn what menopause is and what it does. If you're American, picture yourself in a situation where you lost your job, don't qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, and don't have insurance coverage for hormones. You not only can't get the T you need to maintain your transition, but you also can't get estrogen to ease the increasing menopausal symptoms you'd probably deal with.

Think of yourself at an older age, and keep long-term "future you" in mind while you're making life-altering decisions for "current you."

[–] lucretiamott 21 points (+21|-0) Edited

I say this in every thread on the topic but young girls are being told that they can virtually change sex by taking testosterone and having surgery. There is a complete disconnect from reality, and these are young people who's prefrontal cortices are not fully formed - that is, they are not mentally capable of grasping things like risk and long term effects. They are being told that they are not actually in female bodies. But of course they are still in female bodies. Even the term "F T M" is an illusion. They will not become healthy males, only sick females. That is the only future they have in store if they go down this path. Medical malpractice medical malpractice medical malpractice, etc

[–] Nona_Biba 21 points (+21|-0)

...oh, honey. im not trying to kick her when she's down, but did she not do any kind of research/ googling about what life after a hysterectomy is like? her doctors should have told her about this possibility too whether she asked or not, they deserve to be fined. This is what "informed consent" leads to.

[–] bannedrui_resin 7 points (+7|-0)

It's pretty shocking to see that a quick google search would have given her the information she needs. I wonder what kind of emotional state she was in such that she agreed to the surgery without so little curiosity? I'm guessing the affirming doctors and friends gave her a feeling of total emotional/social security and confidence... it cost them nothing to be encouraging and supportive, but they aren't the ones bearing the physical cost afterwards.

[–] shewolfoffrance 4 points (+4|-0)

I'm guessing her "research" was mostly from sources that were pro-trans and brushed over or ignored the side effects. That, plus the affirmation-only model and the generally terrible state of health education in US schools would have contributed to her ignorance.

Same. I feel awful for her and the doctors should have provided a full disclosure of what happens. However, from experience, I have been actively poo-poo'ed about these side effects by a person begging for these procedures. I have listened to her support system poo-poo my concerns and treat me like I'm hysterical. Yes, the fault lays 100% at the feet of the medical field for allowing this to happen, but too often when presented with the facts these kids behave in a fashion you would completely expect from teens.

[–] Srfthrowaway 1 points (+1|-0)

These are the kind of patients who come in and inform me that if I don't help them get whatever it is they want, they'll "take their business elsewhere."

[–] RealMapelFlavour 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

From your inside vantage point, how do you see this stopping? What would it take to compel surgeons to stop following the affirmation model? If you don't provide them hormones they can easily get that stuff online, but the surgery requires doctors. The WPATH SoC is held up as the authority in treatment, but it's pulled together by what are essentially patients. Is there any authoritative, ethical body that has physicians' backs?

There's a circular washing of hands. The surgeon has no responsibility because the patient's mental health is vetted by someone else who provides what amounts to a waiver so the surgeon can proceed. The surgeon can say the mental health person is responsible, and the mental health person says the WPATH SoC required them to affirm. My kid's mental health counselor (no medical background) went so far as to coerce her with 'the sooner you get surgery, the better you'll pass.' There seems to be a systemic failure that isn't going to be rectified until there are literal bodies of proof of the harm done to children.

[–] [Deleted] 3 points (+3|-0)

They are in a cult. They only look at cult approved media and medical advice. They're just victims of a predatory religious group the same that many women have been throughout history.

[–] BluecatSarah 19 points (+19|-0)

What the hell did they tell her?

[–] pennygadget 18 points (+18|-0)

What the hell did they tell her?

"This surgery will magically make you a real boy and cure your dysphoria & depression & every problem in your life!! And if you don't get this surgery ASAP, you are destined to kill yourself!!!"

[–] Lolo 15 points (+15|-0)

She didn't google the side effects? People can be lost in years long rabbit holes when diagnosing their own psychological disorders, but don't think to check out the effects of having organs removed? Just goes to show people aren't great at being their own doctors.

p.s. fuck the doctors and system and lobbyists doing this to people. Did someone really give "informed consent" if they are flabbergasted by a health line article?

[–] Luckystar 8 points (+8|-0)

Honestly at this point so many institutions are captured. Google results are biased, as are many major medical providers. I bet if they google about the effects of hormones and surgeries, especially if they have a history of googling about transgender stuff (and so Google's algorithm knows what kind of results they would like to see), they will get mostly flowery positive depictions that minimize the risks.

Also, even being told the risks doesn't mean much if you don't know how likely they are. Even a minor surgery like wisdom teeth removal can come with a "You could die from this" disclaimer. Add that to rose colored goggles (pink and blue colored goggles?) and they'd probably not think twice about any side effects they signed off one.

[–] yikesforever 12 points (+15|-3)

Was finding out the side effects beforehand too terfy? :P

[–] [Deleted] -1 points (+1|-2)

It's appalling how many women here are so quick to jump a victim of a cult.

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