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38 comments

[–] FireproofWitch 33 points (+33|-0)

Honestly, it’s one of the toughest elements of social conditioning to break free of. I’m literally planning for a few months or years of female separatism after my degree is over, and even I can’t quite let go of the programming that says that some of these so-called ‘best’ years of my life are meant to be spent making myself available to men instead.

[–] Vulvamort 22 points (+22|-0)

Female socialization is a hell of a drug. Also I love your username!

[–] littleowl12 31 points (+31|-0)

I think men should feel more than a little ashamed of themselves that girls have to believe in fairy tale characters because the truth is so unbearable.

[–] usernamezerozero 20 points (+20|-0)

This makes me want to cry for my daughter.

[–] Free_Metis RadFem McGonagal 19 points (+19|-0) Edited

Same.

I'm going to do my best not to let her get fed that prince charming narrative. I'm putting together a list of movies, shows, and books that have strong girls/women who don't look for or fall in love. I know I can't control everything she sees, hears, or learns. But it can't hurt to show her a better version of what girls can be and do than what everyone else is going to tell her.

As for how terrible boys/men can be, that will be covered under discussions and news stories.

I will not send her into the world blind.

[–] FireproofWitch 18 points (+18|-0)

Hello, there! I know you didn’t exactly ask for recommendations, but may I still offer some?

The first version of Disney’s Mulan is exceptional at presenting both GNC actions and characters as well as sidestepping an obvious love story. I still consider it the movie of my childhood, and I can’t stand Disney.

If you’re willing to look into anime, check out Studio Ghibli’s offerings, especially Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, My Neighbour Totoro and Spirited Away, which are either: 1) very subtle in romantic implications or 2) devoid of romance altogether. Also, for western animation, check out the stop motion adaptation of Coraline - it’s got an absolutely stellar plot and a very unique atmosphere for a kids’ movie (although this borders on horror, so be wary if your child is sensitive).

[–] izzy314 3 points (+3|-0)

Mulan is my favorite Disney 'princess'. Always has been. I love Studio Ghibli. My favorite is Kiki's Delivery Service, but my son's favorite is Totoro and I love that he gets to see two awesome little girls as protagonists having adventures. He's even pretended to be them. The book Coraline is wonderful too, and there's a great graphic novel version.

For tv shows, we love Peg plus Cat. A girl doing math, with a cat companion, and solving problems? Amazing! He used to watch Madeline too and we still really like the Christmas special.

[–] mountainwitch 9 points (+9|-0)

I'm trying to do the same with my son. I want him to see strong girls/women in media and have an innate understanding of the danger men pose to women and children. I am trying not to scare him, but to make him aware for his own safety. Hopefully this carries into adulthood and he becomes empathetic to the plight of women.

this is so important. There's this idea that boys aren't interested in stories with female main characters, but it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If they see a variety of heroes early on it sticks with them.

seconding studio ghibli - totoro and ponyo are great for preschoolers (though ponyo's ending is kinda weird, you might want to pre view it and see what you think.) I'd save spirited away, nausicaa and kiki for elementary school, and princess mononoke for middle school and up.

I'm not generally a disney fan but moana was actually really good. Kickass but 3 dimensional heroine and no romantic subplot at all.

and of course avatar the last airbender. The first season has some mis-steps but is decent overall, and the second introduces one of my favorite female characters of all time.

[–] subaruiner 17 points (+17|-0)

i say this all the time honestly. a man who expects a porn star is more dangerous than a woman who expects a romance novel hero, but either way you slice it it’s depressing as hell.

[–] spinningintelllect 16 points (+16|-0)

This is the premise for a horror film.

[–] [Deleted] 12 points (+12|-0)

Christ you ever feel like most rom come and movies targeted towards women are horror films? The shit that happens is so horrific.

Not to mention the horror genre and porn increasing in popularity as a direct response to feminism and women gaining rights. It's all male centered social conditioning. The whole female experience is being primed to look at men, think about men, please men and make way for men. Insidious.

[–] grrrandma 14 points (+14|-0)

Maybe there's hope. I just watched the latest Disney "princess" movie, Raya and the Last Dragon, and there was no hint of a Prince Charming anywhere. Raya was working with a female dragon sidekick and had to figure out how to get her female political rival to cooperate in order to save the world. Some male characters but no romantic interests. If you have an eight year old you need to watch a movie with, it's not a bad choice.

[–] Lilim 2 points (+2|-0)

Glad to hear good things about this movie! I’m always hesitant to give Disney any of my money but I do really enjoy family animated films when I want something lighter to watch. I’ll give this one a try!

[–] Wegotthebeat 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

I gave it up years ago

However if one is planning to live entirely for oneself, it takes $$$, at least where I live. Want a kid? $$$. Want a home of your own? $$$, where I am at least, thanks to money launderers, and football field sized loopholes in regulation and taxation.

So to be a free woman who can have other experiences, like having children, like having some equity so when you’re old you don’t have to go to a warehouse for the dying poor and family-free, you need to prioritize making money.

That’s what my grandmother (who literally died mad at my grandfather) told me. Always have money of your own.

Too bad I didn’t listen. I went for experiences. Tried to figure out my shit. Had my head up my ass. Meandered. Had no interest in $$$.

You can’t be an artist or work in non profits if you also want financial security and the option of being a mother.

So, my regret and I would like to recommend preparing for lucrative careers.

That's what I struggle with, too. Most lucrative careers are male-dominated, so you're still looking at years, if not decades of being at the mercy of men. If you don't start early and dedicate a big portion of your time to it, it's very hard to reach independence.

[–] Wegotthebeat 6 points (+6|-0)

It’s possible to be a single mother (if you want that experience) and not be wealthy, it’s just super hard. And IVF is $$$$$$$.

sad but true. I wonder if even straight women would be better off making platonic life partnerships with each other rather than looking for a diamond in a compost pile.

[–] [Deleted] 13 points (+13|-0)

See, this is why we need to be gentle with each other here and not respond to posts with “I can’t believe you think you’re a feminist if you/your hubby think/believe/do that”.

Most if not all of us have been conditioned and groomed by the patriarchy, and it’s very hard to dis-entangle yourself, especially if you thought you had found (or been found by) your prince and now have kids, and/or maybe no way to support yourself (and your children), or at least not easily.

Also remember that the wider family is often heavily invested in the narrative, and a woman bucking the trend and refusing to be abused any longer is often the one labelled as the problem, not the abuser. So extracting yourself from the fairy tale can mean losing your support network, right at the time you need it most.

[–] hmimperialtortie 12 points (+12|-0)

I knew a long time ago that no man alive would be any good for me, even the few who aren’t eyesores.

[–] banjo 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

A big part of the fantasy is just the idea of finding a man who "knows what he's doing" and can take away the stress of being a grown up. But it's a fantasy. Even if you find one that's not abusive, you will still have to make sure for yourself that the doors are locked at night and the bills are paid on time and so on. You still have to continually decide for yourself what is or isn't smart or good or worthwhile. That should be obvious but I didn't even consciously know I wanted that, until I got some experience (and would always feel like "ok I can't hand the reins to this one but if I could just find a mature one that knows what I need...) I think it explains a lot of common fantasies about older men, teachers, even "bad boy/rebel" archetypes.

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