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19 comments

[–] SulphuricMirror 43 points (+43|-0)

And this is why we (many of us, anyway) are gender abolitionists, but of course if gender is abolished, there goes trans ideology. If they don't have an oppressed role to transition into so they can splash around in our chains, what would they do with themselves? Just be men who wear whatever they want and have diverse personalities? Can't have that, can we?

[–] Mintie 27 points (+27|-0)

That's what we were heading towards at one point. The whole idea of gender was supposed to not matter, just let people wear and do what they want without having to change their sex/pronouns/all that shit. But somewhere along the line, they doubled down on gender restrictions.

[–] Ruby 8 points (+8|-0)

Just be men who wear whatever they want and have diverse personalities?

We must understand that the world of men is filled with hierarchy, power struggle, and one-up-manship. It liberates us to wear what we want and have diverse personalities because we've only ever been afforded one class. Men, however, organize themselves around their personalities and appearance (& any other trivial tribalism - sport, gaming, politics, money). TIMs know that once feminine men are returned to the Man class they'll be ranked lower and demeaned more. They lose power and status.

When they control gender, however, they get to continue having authority over the Woman class while ensuring our ongoing subordination to femininity (as a quintessential aspect of being a woman). There is FAR more benefit to them in calling themselves women than attempting to be nonconforming men.

[–] SulphuricMirror 1 points (+1|-0)

Yes exactly, hence the "can't have that, can we?" They all stifle each other immensely and bully and sanction anyone who steps out of line, I guess because that shows a chink in the armour of male supremacy, in a way.

[–] Boudicaea 29 points (+29|-0)

I love it. Points out why feminine gender performance is a much bigger problem than performing masculinity. Yeah there are a couple of negative masculine gender traits, mainly relating to lashing out violently, sexual harassment, and closing off emotions. Those could be easily over come if men just acted like normal people. It's not hard to not be harmful to others or to share your feelings. Women have to overcome literally everything society says a woman should be.

[–] hmimperialtortie 23 points (+23|-0)

That was very interesting, and gave more insight to the idea of gender nonconformity than one usually sees.

[–] carpetplaydohx2 8 points (+8|-0)

That last line, though

The subjugation of women by men is all gender ever was

THAT.

That part right there.

[–] SueGen 3 points (+3|-0)

I know, right? A ton of the history, project and process of women's liberation was all a critique of gender roles! I feel like I blinked (Okay, I was busy raising the children I gave birth to out of this woman's body) and all of a sudden, gender rules the world. How did this happen?

This is absolutely spot on. To look more masculine, all I have to do is be reasonably healthy instead of the blobby desk jockey that I have become. The exercise, fresh air and sunlight I would get from doing a job my grandad would recognise as real work and real food in moderation would do it all.

[–] kababaihan 4 points (+4|-0)

Does anyone have a link to what this is referring to? It talks about how a woman in her natural state is how we define a women who isn't conforming to gender (unshaved legs and not submissive etc) I think I read it here but I can't find it anymore.

[–] cardinalvirtue 3 points (+3|-0)

So much this.

Femininity: shaving, wearing a bra to make your breasts look good, wearing restricting clothes, putting on make-up, seeking to appeal. As soon as you stop doing that, you're considered less of a woman.

And the worst thing is that there are countless women who absolutely buy into this shit. Women who think that male approval is something to strive for. Women who think that the "natural" order of things is that men and women talk, act, and look different.

It's women buying pink clothes for their daughters, women performing feminity and teaching their daughters to apply make-up and shave their legs and no go out without a bra. It's women saying "I like manly men", whatever that is. Women shaming other women for their looks.

You know, this also makes me think about the Islamic belief that we are all naturally Muslim at birth; it’s our inborn nature. When someone converts to Islam, they’re not really “converting” to it, they’re reverting to their original, unaltered state, according to this belief. The only reason the convert, or anyone who is not Muslim, for that matter, was ever not-Muslim, was because they were corrupted by society, family, etc.

But if that were true, then how come so much of Islamic practice is performative adherence to gender roles? Why is so much awareness and thought and preparation necessary to put into proper behavior for a Muslim woman? Wouldn’t it come naturally?

TIMs love the performative aspect of femininity, because they think that’s all femalehood is. A costume, a behavior, an act.

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