I have met trans people. Every single one has been a horrible person to either me or someone close to me. One of them is even a child molester. So no, "getting to know" trans people does nothing. They're not special perfect lovely beings.

[–] yesisaiditxx 22 points Edited

One of my best friends, like hung out multiple times a week for years best friends, was gay and then became trans when we weren’t seeing each other anymore due to him moving away. When he’d come back and visit it was all so awkward because he was dating a TiF and when we’d meet the atmosphere was like they were braced for me to potentially upset them or say something dumb. Suddenly he had this complex about “the cis”.

I really loved this guy and I think he was a good person. He is just too smart for his own good— all of the clever gender theory that helps you feel less emasculated by your gayness because you’re actually a woman— I think it helped him deal with abuse he suffered from an ex, our southern heritage, etc. I’m still so annoyed because he was weird, cool, smart, and funny and I watched him change over the course of a few years where he started to look at me funny— almost like he was analyzing “how to girl”, he started to make comments at me that implied jealousy, he started to be so engrossed in the whole TRA world that I think he’s actually secretly miserable and isolated. We don’t talk or see each other anymore. So, through that friendship I was up close and personal with 4 trans people for years…didn’t change a thing about my views, only made me question how other people don’t see it. I genuinely started to assume that the biggest TRAs actually don’t know any trans people and if they do they just kiss their ass so much that no actual talking or friendship occurs.

Omg, exactly this.

I had someone tell me to "get to know" some trans people before I criticize them on Reddit. They act like trans people are people with some immutable characteristic who are being judged unfairly, like black people or gay people or something. But they're not an oppressed group with an immutable state of being. The TIMs are a bunch of porn sick predators and perverts, and the TIFs are usually abused and/or mentally ill or just delusional, self-hating misogynists. These are not "immutable" qualities that they aren't responsible for.

My peak trans was getting emotionally invested in/having romantic feelings for a TIF going through her transition. I was basically a clueless "I'm sure they know what's best." libfem ally. Then reality hit me like a ton of bricks. First it was the obvious female socialization, which I recognized over internet chat without a single picture shared. "Oh but I'm sure there's something masculine I'm missing. Some definitive proof that this person fits in the male box." That something never came. Instead I saw someone depressed, isolated and needy, with poor family dynamics and a boyfriend exploiting her vulnerabilities. Someone growing an entourage of animals around herself to cope as she imagined herself some kind of personal rescue service. A tragic story of so many women, it's cliche. I still proceeded to quiet the nagging voice of concern that something wasn't lining up there.

Then, she started talking about her treatments. I realized with some dread that raising T was dangerous in a female body, because I had personal experience with (naturally occurring) excess androgens and the havoc they can wreak. I started looking for answers. I wanted to be comforted but.. I needed to know as much as possible, because I was worried about someone I cared about very much, talked to every day, and I wanted to look of for her. The official sources all said T was perfectly safe, there were side effects but maybe the most serious risk was higher blood pressure and that's something they can monitor easily. I had a sense this wasn't the whole story. Things just weren't lining up with what I knew, what PCOS sufferers go through and that would have to pale in comparison to the doses she'd be on. I kept looking and finally found forums where TIFs talked about all the bad stuff. horrible pains, uterine atrophy. risk of death if they don't get a hysterectomy in time. I thought wow, I need to talk to my friend. SHE WAS SO UPSET that I dare worry about her health. I backed off, and learned to keep my concerns to myself.

I tread very carefully on the trans subject. There were other things than the health. If I asked her about being trans and tried to understand her perspective, I was given non-answers. These questions were difficult to get clear answers for, anywhere, and even with a friend to ask I didn't fare any better.

I was struggling with my faith and trying to hide it. I was struggling with my faith on other libfem things as well and some had just skipped me over because of the generational gap (no, sex work isn't empowering, you fuckwits). Before I ever knew about TERFdom, I was one. By the time I stumbled across /r/GenderCritical I was alone with my thoughts but had already made up my mind. Everything just fell into place from there. "people understand me. I'm not alone." I was relieved. Nervous about some of the very harsh things being said of the TIMs. But primarily relieved. I didn't have to live in fear of being tarred and feathered for speaking about this anymore. I had somewhere to go.

This is a great analogy and counter to the "but most trans women aren't predatory" line.

It doesn't matter. Most of the Evangelical Catholics, Christians, & Mormons I've met have been lovely. It doesn't make their religions correct.

Also, even the most religious person typically doesn't force you to adopt their faith. Like, most workplaces wouldn't forbid workers from packing non-kosher lunches because an Orthodox Jew got hired. But workplaces are now forcing everyone to adopt the trans religion and pretend their male co-worker magically became a girl and belongs in the ladies room

Perfect! I'm using this next time someone tells me that I just need to "have a conversation" with some "real trans people."

We do listen to them. We see what they do. That’s why we’re here.

[–] PGTips4Lyfe 12 points Edited

The funny thing is when they say this they are often trans themselves and they are having a real conversation at that moment online with you! So what they are saying is they are saying "come offline so I can see who you are so I can stalk you, harass you, verbally or physically abuse you in person because this logical conversation makes me feel less powerful over you."

It's creep behavior. "We're having a public conversation here, but I want to take this to a private place where nobody can see the crimes. Lets take this to another location where I can corner you in a room, in person, with a group of people." Culty kidnap vibes!

The reason why I'm here started with the "butch transbian" (aka typical narcissistic straight man incel) who ranted at me about how "all cis lesbians are transphobes", solidified after learning on "actual lesbians" that this narcissism is core to trans culture, and became necessary after "true lesbians" got banned for being a "hate group". But yes, I've been told by good codependent straight women libfems that I, too, also need to "get to know even more trans women"

I use this also when they accuse me of being transphobic because I don't believe in gender. Am I christianphobic because I'm atheist?

Am I christianphobic because I'm atheist?

Or islamophobic for not believing in Allah and Muhammad as his messenger? Transphobic means as much as that to me. Both terms are disingenuously used to conflate criticism of ideas with hatred of individuals.

Nope, but these people wouldn't recognize the religious bigotry in what they're doing if it hit them in the face, so we get the middle ages all over again.

This comment was taken from under a video by a GC guy I’m cool with.

I love when people tell me to meet trans people to change my mind about them. It just so happens that I have met a ton of trans people over the years, and not one of them was a good person. They were all self-entitled, manipulative, godawful people. They were all horrible people, and not nice at all. They thought they could get away with doing and saying some of the most fucked up, rude, nasty and deplorable shit to others, especially to women, and they knew that libfem women would always give them a pass.

I had written about 2 of them back in one of the peak trans threads on the old CG sub before it was banned.

My boyfriend has a co-worker TiF who coerced her girlfriend into joining onlyfans. The TiF even advertises her girlfriends body on her IG where all of her male co-workers and family members can see it! My boyfriend asked her how she feels comfortable posting her girlfriends body like that, and the TiFs response was: "I'm the one who gets to fuck her at night not you so there!!" Such a childish and disrespectful response, and told a lot about her character imo.

oh god. those are the ones who think that being a man means you have a free pass to being a giant douche to everyone. Or they're just overcompensating. Maybe both?

From the stories he's told me about her and how she acts, she's definitely both. Goes out of her way to be awful towards other women. She's also in a band and she firmly believes (and brags) that she's the "first ever transman lead singer of a band."

[–] Lilith 0 points Edited

I seriously doubt that.

Honestly there's a lot of women who aren't trans who go out of their way to be awful towards women and impress men.

Yeah I think the boys clubs can keep those women. If they wanna roleplay manhood I don't even care.

I have met a TIM waiter (and used to have a TIM colleague). Both were nice, if a bit weird (the waiter not related to being trans identified, the colleague definitely because of it).

So? They were both feminine men under a mental delusion that they were women. Them being nice to strangers and acquaintances doesn't change the fact that they're not women.

Most men I meet are probably not going to rape or kill me but if that does happen to me, it's definitely going to be a man.

You don't even have to find them. They impose themselves all the time

There's a TiM in my University department who wears fetish gear to classes. Like lacy fishnet gloves, or a short skirt with thigh-high socks. I can 100% guarantee that any conversation with him would push me even deeper into TERFdom

[–] yesisaiditxx 7 points Edited

LOL great analogy.

I am religious in some senses. I wasn’t raised in a religious community and I don’t really participate in much formal stuff but long story short I’ve always felt “sure” that there is some divine dimension to life, I’m fascinated by religious history and the bible, and I value certain religious rituals and traditions.

So, given that, whenever someone professes to be an atheist around me, or I become acquaintances or friends with someone who openly is, I know there’s absolutely no sense in me trying to dig at them about that. You can’t change someone’s entire perception of the world in a few conversations unless you’re profoundly important to that person or they were already on their way to that conclusion.

The idea that we must convince others to agree with us on matters that we hold dear and see as “real” and “good” has its place when it comes to stuff like don’t neglect to feed your kids, don’t kill people, don’t rape people, don’t gamble on dog fights, don’t do medical experiments on people…whatever— you get the point— practical stuff. Wanting someone to change their mind about something so ingrained in them such as whether or not men can become female or whether or not God exists? It’s intrusive and it’s potentially inciting violence for no reason other than needing that no one dare upset your own little world.

Again it just shows that they must know deep down. I feel secure in my sense that the divine almighty is “there”, so if you don’t think so that’s okay. They can’t handle someone not agreeing with them because they know the whole “biological sex is permeable I am basically like a woman” thing is a sad, pathetic fantasy.

I used to be religious so I get this. I won't fault people for their efforts to make sense of the world. But, like you, I take issue with: (a) insisting on those beliefs when there is plenty of evidence and it overwhelmingly contradicts them, and (b) insisting that everybody else have those exact same beliefs, regardless of (a).

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