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30 comments

[–] starsstorm 50 points (+50|-0)

These people have never seen the results of a prenatal dna test, been at an anatomy ultrasound, birthed a baby, or changed a single diaper and you can tell.

[–] ProxyMusic 19 points (+19|-0)

It's also not just the TRAs today.

I've read a lot of the research published about DSDs written over the course of many, many decades - and in the process I have become convinced that a major reason many kids born with urogenital anomalies have been labelled as being of "ambiguous" or unclear sex is because the persons making these assessment/judgments have all been MEN who've never changed diapers and bathed a single child - much less multiple children. Thus they don't have a clue about the normal range of what babies/children's genitals can look like, and they don't understand in particular how girls' outer genitals are configured or how/from where female humans urinate.

Most of the understanding of these male doctors comes from vague textbook descriptions and a handful of drawings - made by other men - showing what some men think normal genitals should look like and which mistakenly characterize what to me appear to be anomalies of male urogenital anatomy - such as micro penises, penoscrotal hypospadias, empty scrotal skin sacs and groin dimples made of inverted penile skin - as female anatomical structures.

Moreover, these male doctors usually have very little and very brief RL contact with the genitals of the babies, children, adolescents and adults they assess and describe as having genitals of the opposite sex or genitals which are mixed sex or "intersex." These men only see the genitals of their patients during brief medical exams done one time or at most on a few occasions in each patient's entire life. Their conclusions that this particular baby/child/person's genitals look ambiguous or "intersex' are usually based on seeing the patients' genitals for a total amount of time that can be measured in mere minutes.

If these men had experience changing babies' and tots' diapers, seeing how babies and tots' pee, cleansing babies' and tots' "privates" multiple times a day - day in and day out over the course of months and years - I think they would have a very different view of what normal is. I also think that many of the urogenital anomalies that male doctors have traditionally regarded as evidence that person's sex being ambiguous, impossible to characterize as male or female, or as the misnomer "intersex," instead would be seen as unusual variations of anatomy that still can be classified as either variations of female anatomy, or variations of male anatomy.

[–] takshak 11 points (+11|-0)

to be fair, I haven't, either, and that's still hilarious

[–] starsstorm 9 points (+9|-0)

That’s fair, I just thinking going through the actual process of growing a human or caring for pregnant women/ young infants makes their ideology’s nonsensical approach to sex extremely apparent.

[–] immersang 23 points (+23|-0)

Holy shit, that second tweet.

I assume this is a young person, as most of the ones tweeting this kind of nonsense tend to be. But that does not make it any better. In fact, I really start to worry about the young generation (school and college age) and the level of misinformed they are, just because they are blindly following the newest fad ideology. This will be difficult to roll back, even when the fad is over. Once all that nonsense has been taken on as fact, I don't believe it can be easily corrected.

[–] bellatrixbells 9 points (+9|-0)

I'm not sure if this person is even that young. In their twenties, maybe ?

[–] spacykate 6 points (+6|-0) Edited

When I was TAing intro biology for my phd I began to realize just how bad most biology education actually is. In my state there has been a deficit of STEM high school teachers for decades, some of my students had never had high school biology, like, at all. The creationists have now been joined by a bunch of leftists that think educating people about their bodies is somehow immoral.

[–] Teacher_Cat 14 points (+14|-0)

😆 If you have ever watched an episode of One Born every Minute you know it takes less than 10 seconds (if that) for a midwife or doctor to tell the sex of a baby.

[–] MsJender 14 points (+14|-0)

I do give Taln credit though - he stuck it out and participated in rational discussion instead of screaming about TERFS and bigots and blocking everyone.

He's wrong, of course, but I appreciate his effort. That's rare in these discussions. It's amazing how their own words contradict their position, yet they keep on hammering away.

[–] shewolfoffrance 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

Ugh, I am not looking forward to future medical intake forms.

"Do you like cats or dogs? Did you ever play with blocks or Legos as a child? Is your favorite color pink or purple, or a boy color? Do you prefer steak or salad?"

[–] Julie92845 5 points (+5|-0)

Oh wow, not even I can answer those properly.

"I like cats best but think dogs are better pets. I did play with blocks but didn't enjoy it much. My favorite color is either baby pink or baby blue, I can't decide. Steak or salad completely depends on how the steak is made and what sort of salad it is."

Then I imagine the intake person doing a bunch of math and saying, "Okay, maybe female?"

[–] StellariaMedia 2 points (+2|-0)

I am very fond of a lovely steak salad...does that make me some sort of hermaphrodite? 🤔

[–] shewolfoffrance 1 points (+1|-0)

It makes you genderfluid, but the dressing decides if you're masc or femme.

[–] Lilith-Fair 13 points (+13|-0)

Who is Emma Hilton?

[–] Criticalmind 24 points (+24|-0)

Hilton does research into sex differences in athletes after testosterone suppression.

[–] NecessaryScene 3 points (+3|-0) Edited

She's at the frontline of the battle for women's sports.

She was anonymous on Twitter as "FondOfBeetles" for quite a while - referencing her field of biology.

She's now public and a co-author of one of the key reviews into testosterone-suppressed male performance that are influencing the IOC as they try to sort out their rules.

Here are a few of her speaking appearances. First one a proper presentation by her.

So she's both a proper academic involved in the real fight, and enough of a radfem to work with Maya Forstater and appear at Women's Place UK events or with Helen, Graham and Arty.

[–] girl_undone 12 points (+12|-0)

I remember reading about studies about how quickly and accurately humans naturally determine other humans’ sex, and I was like “some research just really delves into the obvious.”

And then these people come around and start pretending that it’s a great effort.

[–] firebird 8 points (+9|-1)

That person appears to be German, so no, English is probably not their first language.

[–] Turtlefuzz [OP] 6 points (+7|-1)

He replied that English isn't his native language, but even after Emma told him that "rounding up" is not the appropriate term, he doubled down and continued.

She tried lmao

[–] firebird 11 points (+11|-0)

I seem to be alone in this opinion but I think the comment on his English was a bit unnecessary. Based on what I read of the conversation his English seems quite good to me and the actual issue is his unscientific beliefs.

Maybe it's because I've been on the receiving end of such comments myself. It's not the gotcha some people think it is. Especially considering how often I've seen ESL people used as an argument by English speaking GC people.

[–] slendernan 5 points (+6|-1) Edited

You're not alone, I thought the same when I saw this post. I found her comeback not at all in any way witty nor such a burn as the title suggests, but I don't have a word to describe what it did make me feel.

These silly arguments are such a waste of time. I imagine 99% of the trans and non-binary community would STILL have been determined the sex they are well into their childhood, even including gender behavior biases. None of these men becoming trans in their 40s or these girls becoming trans with their peers at puberty would have been determined as the opposite sex. The current self-id determining factor has zero material grounding.

[–] slendernan 5 points (+6|-1)

So "are you ESL" is supposed to be an insult? Whether or not she meant it as one is irrelevant, when clearly (by your title) it is in your eyes.

[–] Turtlefuzz [OP] 1 points (+2|-1)

I'm sure Hilton didn't intend it to be an insult, as she was very civil when the man replied English is not his native language. She tried to explain, again, that "rounding up" was not the right terminology to use in this situation. He kept arguing using his original words.

In this instance, he knows enough English to try and debate a scientist, and defending his ideology.

This is not an attack on his knowledge of another language. This is a meme made based on his stupidity.

Here is the thread so you can determine for yourself: https://mobile.twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1441873705064353795

[–] slendernan 1 points (+2|-1)

I said whether or not she meant it as an insult was irrelevant. But you think that asking someone if they're ESL is some sort of an own lol "you can't murder people like this!" WOW what a sick burn! I didn't take an issue with her, but you, because you made your thoughts very clear.

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