I feel so dreadfully awful for teenage girls right now. I'm just really sorry, little sisters, we've been trying to clean up this fucking mess for you but men are just gonna men all over everything.

[–] [Deleted] 🌸 Ad meliora 🦕 62 points

We should have a teen circle here for those that need a safe space tbh

I agree. There are several circles I would like to see in a woman-centered community.

/o/teenagers and then something like /o/news too, to see comments from women on current day events.

omg, I would love that! Especially the news circle, since I'm no longer a teenager, haha.

Reading all those male opinions sometimes makes me lose faith in humanity.

[–] sconsolato 9 points Edited

A news circle would be wonderful, but I have aw feeling it would get very political, and the racism would come out.

Edit: just clarifying that I don't think the teenagers would be the ones to worry about, but racism is an issue on ovarit, more specifically denial of racism and the experiences of WOC, which is of course, racist.

I'd be willing to help mod, if the girls allowed adults mods! I know I'm quite lame but maybe that's cool now

I feel awful, too, but then I see that many of these girls are brave and aren't taking this nonsense. Last night I saw a tweet from a woman who looked to be in her early 20s. I thought, wow, that generation isn't totally lost. It gave me a bit of hope.

There is hope, I think.

One of the students I'm working with this academic term decided to undertake an analysis of what she initially called "commercialized feminism," because she's tired of being pandered to. It's been really cool watching her discover some of the arguments against the current tide -- against mainstream "feminism." (I provide only neutral help. I am not one of those teachers who tries to sway students one way or another on matters like this.)

This is a good point. It's just so frustrating because I sometimes feel like I was allowed more of an adolescence than them. That's just wrong and unfair.

Oh for sure. I wouldn't want to be a girl today. It's terrible. I got Facebook when I was a freshman in college. Internet porn was out there but I don't think my peers accessed it as freely as they do now. It's a mess.

It's infuriating how every single space has to be inclusive now. You can't say that something is a female-only space because you'll instantly get people down your throat for being a terf. I just don't understand this line of reasoning - they have to logically understand that no matter how early someone transitioned (bar small children whose parents decide that they're trans, but that's a different issue...), there are some key experiences in growing up as a girl that they just will not understand? The mental gymnastics needed here to ignore this... it's astounding.

[+] [Deleted] 49 points

Yes, and even with very small children being transitioned, they still have no idea what it's like to be biologically the opposite sex. And being biologically one or the other sex is basically most of the experience of being that sex. Men will never menstruate or have actual menstrual cramps. Women will never have boners.

They can’t transition. They can believe they have, but they haven’t.

Exactly. What are they transitioning to? They're not biological female. They're just weirder-looking men.

I think the men at the helm of the movement do understand this, they simply don't care, because they feel their desires are more important, simply. And their desires are to use these spaces (and the women in them) as backdrops for their fantasy.

Sometimes I also wonder if there isn't also a more sinister goal of "surveillance" or at least sabotage. If you never allow a class of people to be together among themselves without the presence of a member of the other class, a lot of information will get lost and, of course, organization cannot take place.

TIMs constantly need to derail conversations about women and feminism in order to be included. That's pretty convenient for people who want to stop women from exchanging and making progress. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[–] IrishTheFrenchie say_wut? 11 points

TIMs constantly need to derail conversations about women and feminism in order to be included. That's pretty convenient for people who want to stop women from exchanging and making progress.

I swear, if I started a group for women only, I'd make it a rule that you cannot reply or interact with any TIM's/men who post. It would be full out "crickets" from every woman in the group.

It's a waste of time and energy dealing with them, and even if you don't welcome them and only argue with them, they still get off on it.

Hahah I'd love to see them getting ignored though. Can you imagine the posts on r/MTF ? "The TERFs are ignoring me waaaaahh I'm gonna commit suicide three times in the next hour !!! 😭😭"

[–] notyourfetish 29 points Edited

It's that old sexist trope of trouble happening when women get together and men being paranoid about allowing us to converse alone. The three witches in MacBeth . . . The counsel of sorceresses in The Witcher books . . . Men are terrified of letting us gather alone because we'll pass on wisdom and knowledge and educate other women, and that would empower us.

Most minorities have never been allowed to have gatherings for the same reasons. Black people were also dispersed for "illegal gatherings" on street corners, etc.

If anything, this should encourage us to keep creating female-only gatherings anyway. If men are this threatened, it means they're scared because we've made so much progress.

Very true. You don't want your slaves being able to speak behind your back.

It's funny though and telling how about control this is since they don't mind excluding us and retaining information from us, but we are expected to tell them everything.

In fact, husbands who wanted to get their wives convicted of witchcraft could claim his wife's friends were a coven. They don't like us talking amongst ourselves.

It's almost like they view girlhood and womanhood as paper dolls anyone can put on or take off. Our bodies aren't really that different, what's the matter?/s 🙄🙄🙄

The mental gymnastics needed here to ignore this... it's astounding.

They're men. They think their experience is universal in some way and also that they always know better. I know what you mean that it's astounding but somehow it's also not?

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It bitters me the most that even women are allowing this to happen.

They are actually the worst about it in that they will make you feel like a bad person for dissenting. It’s this movement’s currency.

Yes!! I tried to talk to one of my friends about this, gently explaining that no matter how hard you try, you just can’t say that trans women equal biological women. That’s just a fact. But of course she made it seem like I had said the most hateful thing ever.

It's insane eh. Even when I was an "ally" I still couldn't get on board with TW are literally W.

Funnily enough, I love dissenting. It gives me life, and I'm a known rule follower. But to stand up against injustice is such a powerful feeling. It makes one feel so human.

I've been outcasted just for not believing in their bizarre fetishism.

Women generally care too much about how they are perceived by their interlocutor. I've talked to many women about gender woo and they all were afraid to get someone upset. They care more about people's feelings than truth. You don't find this line of reasoning among men.

Men were not raised to care about others feelings, just their own.

[–] meranii 3 points Edited

I have had this impression as well and I think it's because women get punished for "upsetting someone's feelings" far more than men ever do. I remember at least a few times even in my childhood where I got scolded and threatened with physical harm by my parents for "being rude" or even unintentionally insulting someone in the mildest of ways. My brother straight up bit people and didn't get half the shaming. Similarly, my mom always cared about being perceived as a perfect little family in public, while my father often had loud angry outbursts when we were on family outings. Did she say "don't take your anger out on the children"? No, she said "wait until we get home".

You carry these things into adulthood, and I think some women try to turn this fear of upsetting others/looking bad into a virtue, as in "oh, I'm just so naturally empathetic!" or "I just want everyone to like me, I'm such a people pleaser!".

This was already starting when I was at the end of my teenage years 6 years ago, too. I couldn't say anything in Facebook groups without being told to "check my privilege" for complaining about my period pains because a grown old man might want to have them.

[–] Skittles 17 points Edited

Not to be depressing or anything, but since the internet existed there were still no "women only" spaces. Men have been infiltrating every edge of the internet with their depravity since it's inception. The only thing that's changed is there are less people allying for the cause to rid of the "creeps" because the creeps are fighting to be a legitimate thing by law now.

A colleague’s response to young kids being taught that boys can be girls was “Well, if it prevents even one kid from committing suicide…..”. So much bad faith from the adults in the room.

But having males invading females spaces which leads to more rapes which can lead to suicide is a-okay... Where's the logic

It's so glaringly obvious that the feelings and wellbeing of girls simply do not matter one iota. We really haven't progressed much in this area at all.

Mens' orgasms count for more than womens' very lives, as we see in the 'no kink-shaming!" horseshit, while women die, or are left brain damaged, or have permanent damage to their eyesight, thanks to "kinks" like strangling women.

And if multiple girls are assaulted in spaces that should be private, or if adult women are raped in prisons or DV shelters, who cares-? That is what we she-goats are for. And I have zero doubt that colleague was picturing a Sad Trans "Girl" as the "one life saved".

Yes,100%. Of course, his daughter is out of school and in college now. They all say they wouldn’t care about their girls (or boys) being subjected to this, but I know they are lying.

Its so sad. Even little girls aren't permitted to have ANYTHING to themselves

Seriously, I thought we had it bad in the 90's, but my god at least you could retreat to the edge of society inside your little "freak" bubble where (generally) you were left alone and not actively harassed from inside what is suppised to be your "safe space" like this. The combination of that and the proliferation of internet only communication is just phew. I thought I had anxiety and depression, but in this is a toxic stew that I would be shocked any young woman could survive WITHOUT having anxiety and depression.

I firmly believe this is devolution. Things were better then, at least here in the US. That’s when sexual harassment started being considered wrong, and Take Back the Night was taken seriously.

Create a group based on non-glamorous voluntarism of some kind. They’ll never show up. Voila!

Maybe someone could send her an invite code. It sounds like this place might do her well.

That was my first thought, too. We’re one of the few uncolonized spaces I know.

It really is just so monumentally unfair. I absolutely cherished my girl only spaces as a teenager. Hell, I went to a women’s college! Girls deserve spaces away from men.

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