Liberal feminism is a fucking disease, lol. Just a hint for anyone confused, if you can be pushed out of a feminist movement because you're getting too close to 40 and the young girls who populate it can't be expected to look up to an aging woman, it's not feminist. You shouldn't be able to "age out" of a progressive movement. You shouldn't have to worry you're not hot enough to be an activist.

Emma Watson or any other young starlet prancing into a room wearing a slinky black dress and six-inch heels to say "real men support equal rights" is not feminism. Taking off your shirt and shaking your boobs in some guy's face will not win you abortion rights. A synchronized twerk-off outside of the capital has never resulted in fair wages for female employees.

Men do not respect women. Men do not take women seriously. No amount of nudity or sexual services is ever going to get a man to hand you your rights on a silver platter. We have to take them by force or by DENYING men things they want like our nudity or sexual services. The sooner women accept that, the sooner we'll move on. Until then, we're not going to progress.

Femen are not libfems. They use their breasts as a tool of provocation, but they don't "take off their shirts and shake them in men's faces". They simply don't.

They literally do, though, with body paint and words decorating their exposed nude breasts. Funny how it’s all young, thin, attractive, able-bodied women that are prancing around naked in the name of “activism”

Feminism is not going to advance because we take our shirts off. It just isn’t. Men will go on not listening, but at least this time they get a free show. It’s deeply deeply saddening how delusional this approach is.

Then explain why Femen are so immensely efficient. You can disagree with their approach, but tbh it really shows that you don't even know anything about the organisation.

They've done a few really powerful things. I'm sick of the misogyny they're being showered in by radfems.

[–] JoanOfBark 9 points Edited

I'm sorry you're so personally offended by someone criticizing a male run group but I stand by my statement, but that's not misogyny and frankly your comment is offensive to me. You've failed to provide any actual accomplishments of Femen and keep dodging the question. If radical feminism being critical of liberal and male run groups bothers you so much then maybe a radical feminist website is not for you.

But I'm not censoring myself to make you comfortable.

[+] [Deleted] 1 points
[–] Clarbg 15 points Edited

Femen is originally Ukrainian and their methods were decided on by the original Ukrainian founders... Now don't get me wrong, I know topless protests don't really achieve anything in the west, but if you listen to the original founder explain why they decided on topless protest, it makes a lot more sense. So they originally did normal protests in Ukraine on the streets against things like the sex trafficking of Ukrainian women, but since Ukrainians aren't big on feminism or women's rights issues, as you can imagine they weren't getting a lot attention from people. The whole topless protest thing came about because the founders knew it was the only way for people to take notice of them. If their goal was international media attention, it definitely worked.

Also, Femen are hardly libfem. I would actually consider them more radfem leaning. They oppose the sex industry and spoke out against misogyny in Islamic countries. They protest outside brothels and against the sex trafficking of Eastern European women. Some Femen supporters in Islamic countries actually got arrested for nude protests. Some members got detained and interrogated by police in Belarus for protesting against the government. They've done some pretty crazy things.

I don't think there's anything wrong with topless protest if it serves a purpose, like protesting against breastfeeding stigma or against the "covering up" of women in patriarchal countries. Thinking that all topless protests are "liberal feminism" to me just feeds into the idea that women's bodies are inherently sexual and should never be shown in public. There is nothing scandalous (or at least there shouldn't be) about a topless woman. These protests only work because people, especially in non-western countries, get so worked up over female nudity.

Ask anybody outside of feminism what it is that FEMEN opposes.

Nobody knows. They just see them as dumb women with their tits out. Their strategy is shit. Feminist Current also revealed back in 2014 that a man leads it.

I understand.

I’m 50 and have borne/nursed 4 kids.

When we went to the Carribean a few years ago i was topless. I always changed in front of the kids until they became more private about things. I wanted them to see a normal body.

I still can’t help but notice all the women are young and fit. I don’t see anyone who looks to be above 30 or is unattractive

[+] [Deleted] -1 points

You don’t understand what “libfem” means if you thin Femen isn’t libfem

They’re textbook liberal feminism

Stolen from twitter, the latest event she refers to is probably this.

[–] [Deleted] 🌸 Ad meliora 🦕 18 points

It's Femen. I sort of get what they are trying to say, and this would have worked in the 80's and 90s. But in todays porn infested society its just a bit... misguided.


[+] [Deleted] -3 points
[–] butchplease 5 points Edited

Femen aren't libfems. Femen are radfems. They've done very powerful protests and they're much better organised than many feminists outside of France and Ukraine. They're holding more vigils against femicide than I've ever seen in any other country and they're doing a lot of efficient and straightforward feminist activism. They don't rub their boobs in mens faces to get them off. It's shameful to think that that is the only function of the female body. They use their vulnerable, living bodies - which are worthy of respect and protection - to highlight the extreme perversity of a society that exploits, rapes and kills those bodies, and simultaneously wants to censor them and punish them for existing. Femen are so dangerous to men that several Femen activists were exiled from the Ukraine. It's easy to hate and ridicule women for showing their heavily stigmatised bodies in a world that venerates and worships male bodies. I just think that's beneath us. 🤷‍♀️

They’re textbook libfem.

Engaging in your own objectification doesn’t make it not objectification

Also fun fact: more French women identify as feminists than American women do. France banned prostitution as well. I don't think we should be pointing fingers at the French when half of American women voted for Trump and most American feminists support the sex industry and gender ideology. Maybe it's not the French that are the problem...

I don't think we should be pointing fingers at the French when half of American women voted for Trump and most American feminists support the sex industry and gender ideology.

Ovarit is an international forum. Americans might be a majority here, but could we still try not to force the American perspective into every discussion? This topic is not "American vs French feminism".


Well, as we know, there is “identifying as” and, you know, actually being…

I Don't know if France banned prostitution because of feminists. I wonder. The culture over there is very much still libertinian, with it being a much accepted fact that men cheat on their wives with mistresses and prostitutes. Men also claim that banning prostitution kills the "culture of seduction". 😕

[–] no- 6 points

It's not just French feminists, libfems in general think they need to take their clothes off to protest.

Yeah…. why do they do that?

They think women would be listened to only if they had their tits out first. It is a way of attracting attention to whichever cause they are promoting.

[+] [Deleted] -4 points

it's attention grabbing maybe?

or they are inspired by "Liberty Leading the People", a painting by Eugène Delacroix depicting the July Revolution

The fuck..? Why...would a woman have her boobs out in this...

Because to these people, a woman is only worth being in anything if she exposes her body and makes herself sexually available or pleasing to men. It's the same reason why french women think they need to do it. Because they have been taught and shown that men will only pay attention to them if they expose themselves, but they don't seem to understand that those men will never take them seriously.

Because she is a spiritual figure of Liberty inspired by Greco-Roman aesthetics, where godly figures were very often naked.

From memory the revolution is supposed to be feeding at her breast. She is in a way a mother of the people. It's not sexual.

Disparaging women who subvert the sexualization of our bodies by using them as a tool of protest.

Even better, disparaging women who are both protesting the sexualization of our breasts AND a war threatening millions of people ?

This post is utterly disgusting. Wtf is this doing on a feminist space ??

I'm also really disappointed by some of the responses who say that these women should "cover up" to be taken seriously or whatever. Europe isn't the USA, guys.

“Stripping is empowering, sisters!”

[–] linsin 8 points Edited

Oh get a grip. What exactly is getting your tits out to attract attention subverting? What is it actually doing for Ukraine? Why is it only liberal feminists in France who do this and not the radical feminists? Are you new to actual feminism?

They're not using them in a sexual way. Rather I find they are vulgarizing and normalizing the sight of breasts in a way that libfems don't do. Femen are not libfems. They're much more radfem leaning lib.

What is it doing for Ukraine ? Nothing more or less than any other form of protest.

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