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37 comments

Oh wow, you know those times you hear something and it is this whole new angle?

  1. It is absolutely NOT a privilege to fit in our role as the lesser human.

  2. Women are damaged by gender conformity.

[–] BlackCirce [OP] 🔮🐖🐖🐖 23 points

Conforming to gender is no different from conforming to racism. Genderism installs a new classification system analogous to grouping people racially with how much they identify with racial stereotypes. People regardless of “race assigned at birth” who like bland food and country music are white, people who like spicy food and Selena are Mexican, and so on and so forth. And the idea is if we get enough people to “mix up” the racial categories through chosen identification, everyone will be too confused to determine who is what race so racism will be impossible. Under this system it’s absurd for “cisracial people” to cling to an objective definition of their own race because it’s that definition that enables racism.

Ending racism is a literal opt-out process, you just don’t check the box and you don’t get the racism. If you DO check the box, you’ve opted in to the racism which affirms the validity of your racial identity. At that point it all falls apart as a method of social justice.

[–] crodish fujoshit 17 points

It's frustrating because when the trans arguments run out, they turn to emotional manipulation and suicide threats. It really is just dealing with abusive assholes the world over.

I'm sorry you feel such intense discomfort with your own body but it's not my problem.

It's frustrating because when the trans arguments run out, they turn to emotional manipulation and suicide threats.

Yeah, it's why I don't bother arguing with TRAs. I know it's a necessary thing to get our views out there, but if I take all this time to draw up facts and rational arguments only to be met with ad homs, straw mans, and manipulation....it's just a complete waste of time.

Image Transcription: Twitter


Dr. Jane Clare Jones, @ janeclare...

Patriarchal gender is harmful to the humanity of female people.

We will not identify with it. We will not be defined by it. We will not turn a blind eye to people essentialising it. We will not forget that the way it shapes our subjectivity damages us.

Dr. Jane Clare Jones, @ janecl...

We will not be told that we are privileged because we ‘fit it.‘ We will not be gaslit by men who have no idea how much damage gender conformity does to women, that trans or queer people are the only people who know anything about gender, and that 'cis' women need to STFU, when

Dr. Jane Clare Jones, @ janecl...

you have completely trashed the materialist analysis of why gender exists, have completely forgotten it has anything to do with exploiting female people, and in fact, have no fucking model of gender that makes any explanatory sense whatsoever.

[–] Eava 17 points

I love her

She is so articulate and clever, nobody can touch her when it comes to arguing :)

I look at what she writes, and I wish I had just a drop of her wit. I feel like I must have stars in my eyes when I read her tweets.

[–] furyosa MERF 5 points

Same 🤩

(As well as reading anything by BlackCirce. A true privilege to share a space with her on Ovarit!)

Same. Admire her infinite patience when dealing with the relentless knobheads.

She is amazing as usual. Her poem 'Male Power' brought me back to life after r/GC was banned.

However, she calls men who she thinks are nice and who perform the patriarchal construct of 'femininity' "she" and "our sisters", thus not only "[turning] a blind eye" to the TRA cult's gender essentialism, but in fact submitting to it and participating in it?

[–] Iridescence 1 points Edited

I want to believe that comment is just politically pragmatic... the 'not all trans!' to make your other statements seem more palatable. I find it difficult to believe that somebody can be 'placed into sisterhood'. Even if a man advocates for women's rights... donates to refuge causes, protests for abortion rights, campaigns for maternity leave... that's still just an ideal male ally. Many of our causes cannot apply to him. Why should we call him woman?

However, she calls men who she thinks are nice and who perform the patriarchal construct of 'femininity' "she" and "our sisters", thus not only "[turning] a blind eye" to the TRA cult's gender essentialism, but in fact submitting to it and participating in it?

This is massively disappointing. A bit shocking, really.

That tweet is from 2018... so maybe she’s changed her opinion (hopefully).

Yes, this (oct, 2021) is her position. Even when trans widows (dec, 2021) have constantly said it hurts and marginalises and excludes them to cape for AGP men (i.e. their abusers) calling them "she" and platforming them in the feminist movement, she and others do not seem to be able to stop prioritising male feelings.

Feminists try hard to fight for women at the same time maintaining special loyalties to sub-groups of men. How could we not? I have grown sick of those loyalties, which protect brutal acts as if they were heroic.

Don't get me wrong, I admire her a great deal. Just wish she would listen to what radfems, lesbians, and trans widows have been screaming for a long time now.

Wow. Just followed her on my (rarely used) Twitter account. Thanks for this startling info. Very frustrating. Glad she’s gotten pushback on these harmful views and rhetoric.

she calls men who she thinks are nice and who perform the patriarchal construct of 'femininity' "she" and "our sisters"

I'm torn on this. On one hand, it galls me to refer to any male as "she," but on the other hand, I can see why she and others do it. It doesn't alienate people to give them what they want, and if they're nice it doesn't feel as bad. Then again, it's just not true. It's the lie that opened the door to all this mess. I won't do it, but I don't want to reject women who can't bring themselves not to, especially if they're as articulate and smart as JCJ.

I think it can be really hard navigating public life when you're outspoken on controversial topics. It's just a fact that no one wants to hear feminists, let alone listen to them. Maybe it makes a difference if the feminist in question is polite and accommodating (like all women are expected to be). It's a double-bind. You play into your role, you get head pats. You don't, and no one will give you the time of day. Either way, you're not getting any respect.

I won't do it, but I don't want to reject women who can't bring themselves not to, especially if they're as articulate and smart as JCJ

We can disagree with the practice without rejecting wholesale those women and everything they say.

If we only ever listened to women whom we agreed with 100% we would be very much impoverished for it.

I see similar things said about Kathleen Stock and Julie Bindel. Both hold views that are offensive to some radical feminists and lesbians, but I don't think that means we should throw away everything they say.

We will not turn a blind eye to the people essentialising it. We will not forget that the way it shapes our subjectivity damages us.

This is basically the part I was referring to. Isn't using 'she' for men who do not conform to patriarchal gender turning a blind eye?

Isn't "seeing a man as a woman" because he has "placed himself into sisterhood with women" (how?) turning a blind eye? Isn't using "she" for men who do not conform, just participating in essentialising patriarchal gender under the guise of 'nice'?

She is saying - rightfully - that patriarchal gender shapes our subjectivity and damages us, but appears only concerned with undoing that damage if it involves people who aren't subjectively nice? It's not consistent.

I don't disagree with you. You are entirely correct. But what do you propose we do with women like JCJ? Eject them from the feminist movement? Discredit everything they say? If we do this, there won't be any more women to fight for our rights, because none of us is a perfect feminist. It doesn't help our movement if we're constantly biting at each other because of impurity of feminist thought and action. Men love when women do this. They have class solidarity that we can only dream of.

I would love to read a book by her, she's so articulate.

She has a book being published that you can pre order now, hurray. Not sure if I can share the link here but it's on the website of The Radical Notion. Looking forward to reading it

sadly I can't receive international shipments (3rd world problems), I hope it'll sell well and they'll make digital versions available!

So sick of the

queer people are the only people who know anything about gender

mindset. It's the reason I feel like people actively shy away from being gender nonconforming because they think that = trans, and I also think the trauma of that association is why a lit of women who detransition swing back into hyperfemininity hard... furthermore... you can be straight and be gnc. Assuming your status of gender conformity has anything to do with your sexuality or "gender identity" is such a painful and hurtful fallacy. Being "cishet" doesn't mean your opinion should be automatically discredited. As if the bulk of women know absolutely nothing about gendrr at all and how it affects our lives. Sick and tired of lies and assumptions.

THIS is why it's so important for all women to have an understanding of what actual radical feminist analysis is. If you do, what JCJ says here is and always has been crystal clear. Some of us have never been taken in by trans activism because we have always been radical feminists.

Please understand the word radical does not mean extreme, but refers to the root cause of our oppression, which is our sex. Everything else stems from there. That is what radical feminism is about. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/radical-word-history#:~:text=Radical%20was%20first%20an%20adjective,or%20proceeding%20from%20a%20root.%22

I admire JCJ but she isn't exactly saying anything novel or profound here. She is just repeating what all of us should already know. It is self evident.

[–] BlackCirce [OP] 🔮🐖🐖🐖 8 points

Unfortunately despite everyone right left and center talking incessantly about radical feminists and our involvement with the concept of gender, precious few know what we think of it. Her words may not be novel, but they are true and profound.

Unfortunately despite everyone right left and center talking incessantly about radical feminists and our involvement with the concept of gender, precious few know what we think of it

There is an epidemic of people shouting their opinions on topics with which they are woefully ignorant and misinformed. I even think it's become worse over the past few years.