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31 comments

[–] Committing_Tervery I ❤︎ terfs 28 points Edited

Hayton is a fucking pervert. The fact that (some) GC women accept him is peak female socialization. He’s a dangerous man that invades female spaces. I read on another thread that he’s staying at the YWCA, too.

Just another monstrous male predator. I wish he would go away. All AGPs need to leave women & girls the fuck alone. I honestly get pedo vibes from him!

I was always suspicious of him, even before I knew about him using women-only facilities. Stella O'Malley once did an interview with him and his wife, Stephanie. Both O'Malley and Hayton were heaping praise on Stephanie for patiently "taking it" when Hayton was diving headlong into transition. But that poor woman looked absolutely shell-shocked. She had this sort of empty, defeated look in her eyes. The interview was vague on the details of what, exactly, she was enduring, but we've all read trans widows' stories by now.

The fact is that "gender critical trans women" are still men, most of them have a fetish, and that fetish is their number one priority. No matter how logically consistent they are in public, you don't know what they've privately subjected their wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters to behind closed doors. Their own sexual gratification will always take precedence over respecting women's boundaries.

It's so horrifying. I hope Stephanie has strong support from family and friends.

I think he sees GC women as the ultimate validation tool. He gets to preform his fetish around mean old TERFs who are somehow still too polite to tell him to fuck off.

Dr EM has some theories about this...

The women inclusive of men were and are happier to exclude women to please the male’s feelings. Nothing has changed over the intervening years. As well as the tactical reasons for joining lesbian and women’s groups, there is also, I would allege, a sexual reason. Not only does it provide access to the male’s sexual target but what could be more of a turn on to an AGP male than the idea of being accepted by lesbians and feminists as a woman?

🤢

(from What Was Happening Before ‘Just Be Nice Feminism’? Part IV: The Gutter Dykes, 1973)

….well then they aren’t actually GC then. Just because you identify as something doesn’t mean you are something.

And we get to look like we are hypocrites because we allow some men into our spaces, that we are really not fighting for single sex spaces. If a man is nice and says some words, he gets to come in.

This. If some men can earn female pronouns or female spaces, our entire movement is useless. There are no GC trans males that are useful to the cause if they still say “some trans women are women” or they go into women's spaces. The only one I know of who fits that bill is Fionne Orlander. Even if none did, this is a women's movement, it is women's voices and needs that are valuable here. I understand the desire to publicly show that there are reasonable trans identifying people that support the cause, but the truth is that women's needs should be enough. Validation of those needs by males are and should be unnecessary. Males do not speak for us, full stop.

I agree with the first part of your comment

but Orlander.......... this dude? who manipulated supposedly 'gender critical feminist' women into funding his elective cosmetic surgery (edit: now up to £10,552) during a pandemic?

who gets women to say stuff like this?

Any man who still adopts the "trans" moniker is no ally to women period. period. no matter what pretty words they appear to say, look at their actions. and what women end up being forced to do and say at their behest.

"This 'but I've been a good ally' card reflects a misogynistic view of women as vending machines - you put kindness tokens in and get a reward - not people. This is the same thinking found in 'friend zone' and other manifestations of rape culture. My personal favourite bit, is when a supposed ally tells us silly little ladies to put our silly principles and analysis aside for their feelings. What an ally eh? What respect for what we have been arguing." - Dr EM

this is a women's movement, it is women's voices and needs that are valuable here. ... the truth is that women's needs should be enough. Validation of those needs by males are and should be unnecessary. Males do not speak for us, full stop.

🎯🎯🎯

[–] Committing_Tervery I ❤︎ terfs 11 points Edited

I recently unfollowed Dr. JCJ on Twitter and that shit is the reason why.

How can GC women be blind to this crap?!?!? Men will never be our “sisters”!!!

I didn’t donate to Orlander’s crowdfunder, I don’t know why anyone did and idk why JCJ said that. I disagree. No male is a sister, Orlander is a male. He happens to be the only example I am aware of that uses men’s spaces and says “trans women are men.” That was my only point. As I said, no male voice is the priority here. I appreciate that Orlander doesn’t invade women's spaces but I’m not interested in any True Trans nonsense or placing any male voices above women in a women's movement.

Do you really think he uses male spaces? Honestly? Why do you think a male larper who acts this way towards women and invades our online spaces with manipulation, wouldn't do the same IRL? What exactly about him makes you think that he would be honest about it, when everything he has done and shown us has pointed us in the direction that he is lying? DH used to say the same thing, until it was uncovered that he actually does, and actually wrote the guidance to allow other adult males to enter the girls' bathrooms at his school. I don't know if women actually believe these men, or are just pretending to in order to be nice, or just haven't thought about it, but I am genuinely asking.

Ah, Debbie Hayton, our "beloved ally" who totally gets the issues GCers have with transgenderism and its inherent child grooming!!!!! Because "she"' s one of the good ones, ladies!

🙄🙄🙄

Zoraya is amazing, isn't she?

Yes, always. We used to be Twitter moots before I got banned (about 2 years ago now so I'm willing to bet she defos won't remember me now lol), and she's always fucking amazing. Never changed, never compromised on her values. A+ woman 💪

Have you tried overturning (or whatever the technical term might be) the ban? Quite a few previously banned women have reappeared lately, so it might be worth a try (if you're still interested in Twitter, of course).

No, I haven't tried... not yet anyway.. Idk it was kinda almost a relief to have an excuse to get out of there. On one hand there were so many handmaidens even with bios like 'radfem' or 'gender abolitionist' caping for 'male allies' or 'trans allies' (which is an oxymoron) and then on the other hand so many TRAs.. you get banned for saying only females get cervical cancer it was a hellhole and so exhausting. WomenReadWomen, PankhurstEM, and transwidows were the main brightspots as well as Zoraya and other moots but idk if I can handle going back haha. Are you on there? do you remember AlessandraAster? I think I want her back more than I want to be back:)

The thread by ClaireOT was really good, thanks for that

no probs, I agree, it was excellent. Here's a link to the post on it in case you missed it

To be fair though, Brenda never said that we "owed" Debbie Hayton (or any other man) anything. That was repeatedly put in her mouth.

What else could she mean saying that a woman's video, informed by child development and safeguarding frameworks, is a "personal attack" on an "ally", telling her to "use [her] energy to fight the real enemies of women’s and children’s rights", which is exactly what claireOT was doing...

She is saying we should not counter his false claim that a 3 yr old could possibly have an adult paraphillia, because this is an "Attack" and to "Direct her energy" elsewhere.

To say that we should respond differently than we would to any adult male arguing that 3 year olds have sexual desires and sexual perversions, that young children get turned on, is saying that we owe him something, at the very least that we owe him our silence, simply for acknowledging a biological fact. it's preposterous.

Here's claireOT's response to Brenda, for which she was blocked:

Yes, it’s a personal reflection: what we might call a “retconned narrative”, because children of 3 are not even aware that Johnny isn’t actually a dinosaur, even if dressed up as a dinosaur. Child development is very well established. 3 yr olds cannot experience fetishes.

My response is not a personal attack. It is simply an observation that Hayton is using “Adultification” to lift children (from age 3!!!) out of safeguarding frameworks. Any child of that age exhibiting sexualised behaviours needs an urgent safeguarding intervention. He knows this

Teachers are highly trained in child development, and in safeguarding. Hayton is presenting his “personal narrative” in a way that ignores the training he had, which shows that what he is saying, is impossible. Cui bono?

It's not the same to me as saying "we owe Debbie Hayton".

But nevermind, this will escalate into splitting hairs, so I'll back out of this discussion.

Adult male 1 who larps as a woman and wants to be called "she" and "transwoman" and says he's a woman: 3 year olds have sexual desires and sexual perversions, young children get turned on

feminists: no, lifting children out of well-evidenced safeguarding frameworks is some pedo bullshit, and evidence of child development is well-documented and disproves his claims as impossible. here's why.

Brenda: yes, fight the enemies of women’s and children’s rights!


Adult male 2 who larps as a woman and wants to be called "she" and "transwoman" and says he's a male: 3 year olds have sexual desires and sexual perversions, young children get turned on

feminists: no, lifting children out of well-evidenced safeguarding frameworks is some pedo bullshit, and evidence of child development is well-documented and disproves his claims as impossible. here's why.

Brenda: no he's our ally because he said he's male. stop personally attacking him and go fight the real enemies of women’s and children’s rights!


... how is it not the same as saying "we owe DH"? she's saying we owe him our silence bc he says he's male... I really don't see what you're saying.