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This is the first time I have seen him make this explicit statement:

But he remains tuned into the issues of the sport and is in favour of an 'open category' for transgender swimmers.

"I think there should be three classes men, women, trans, give everyone an equal opportunity to stand up and race."

It's still ridiculous: two sex classes and then one class for dopers, body modifiers, and attention seekers. At least he doesn't buy "TWAW".

https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20220923-phelps-finds-new-focus-in-mental-health-fight (https://archive.ph/Qf2I7)

This is the first time I have seen him make this explicit statement: > But he remains tuned into the issues of the sport and is in favour of an 'open category' for transgender swimmers. > "I think there should be three classes men, women, trans, give everyone an equal opportunity to stand up and race." It's still ridiculous: two sex classes and then one class for dopers, body modifiers, and attention seekers. At least he doesn't buy "TWAW". https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20220923-phelps-finds-new-focus-in-mental-health-fight (https://archive.ph/Qf2I7)

51 comments

Two sex classes for men, one for women. Doubling of prizes for the boys.

Yep, the men and failed men category.

NGL, I kinda want to see how well roided out TIFs do against TIMs who "basically have female strength". Or how would doping and surgeries be handled in this third category. Would TIFs be allowed to take testosterone? Would "pre-everything" TIMs be allowed?

I'd love to see how they handle fairness in a joke category where inclusiveness is the top priority.

Honestly I think this is the easiest way to get TIPs to admit that there are physical differences and that some people are more than willing to make something up to cheat. Once you have TIFs getting beaten by TIMs even though the TIMs are on testosterone blockers and the TIFs are on extra t, TIMs who went on puberty blockers getting beaten by non-transitioned men, they won't be able to blame concerns on transphobia anymore, they'll actually have to admit they were wrong. I think the same thing should happen in prisons, if there's a TIM wing and non-transitioned men are "self ID-ing" in just to beat up the TIMs they'll have to admit it doesn't work.

I think that's the real reason why they're so adamantly against a third category.

Once you have TIFs getting beaten by TIMs even though the TIMs are on testosterone blockers and the TIFs are on extra t, TIMs who went on puberty blockers getting beaten by non-transitioned men, they won't be able to blame concerns on transphobia anymore, they'll actually have to admit they were wrong.

They won't, though. They will NEVER admit they were wrong. They'll just come up with some bullshit explanation.

I think the same thing should happen in prisons, if there's a TIM wing and non-transitioned men are "self ID-ing" in just to beat up the TIMs they'll have to admit it doesn't work.

Sadly, it'll just be swept under the rug. Prisons, unlike sporting events, don't have spectators. It's an utterly infuriating situation. I feel so helpless, thinking about female prisoners locked up with TIMs. How is this happening in the twenty-first century?

The only thing I worry about with there being 3 options is that open will pull funding only from womens already underfunded sports. I think women and open would be better.

completely agree about funding. but i think a lot of people who get invested in sports sadly would be less so if the mens category was replaced with an open one, so i'd still prefer 3.

i guess i'd just hope that the billionaires funding the trans lobby thorugh the back door would throw some money at this too so money wasn't taken from womens sports. at least in the arena of physical prowess their money wouldn't be the be all end all.

I think it would be overall a good thing for there to be less people invested in sports- especially male sports.

Good on him. I'm sure he'll get piled on nonetheless for not going along with the TWAW cult mantra. This movement hates women and the whole point of it is to render us "obsolete" and make us feel worthless.

I don't think the backlash will be as bad for him since he's a popular male athlete. TRAs prefer picking on women, misogynists that they are.

Good point, if it had been Summer Sanders or Katie Ledecky saying this, there'd be a bonfire of AGP outrage.

Omg could you even imagine what would've happened if it had been one of the William sisters?

I'd love for either of the Williams sisters to speak out. I'm sure they'd catch all kinds of flack, but they have fuck-you money.

I bet it feels pretty good for him to zing them back, considering how they hijacked him for a bad-faith "example" the same way they constantly do with ppl with DSDs... ahah

Remember that? "Michael Phelps's wingspan makes him not like all the other men, in the same way TIMs aren't like Women" was how the stoooopid non-argument basically went.
(Was extra funny because arguably the biggest loss of Phelps's career was to Russia's Alexander Popov—a slightly taller man with a wingspan less than Phelps's.)

He knows it's ridiculous, but he's kinda the face of swimming, so this is "I'm too much of a coward to say more" compromise.

There’s some bravery in it. I’m not going to idolize him or anything, but let’s not pretend that doesn’t take a little bit of balls to even go that far.

Whenever I’ve spoken with actual swimmers, everyone agrees on an open category and a women’s category.

As in the men’s becomes the open?

Yes and if I recall correctly from my days in a similar sport that’s usually the case anyway… mens events are open in many sports where safety isn’t a factor , and there’s no reason not to expand that

That's what i'd say. I didn't swim in college b/c of my major, but 'free' style is technically open to anything. So it'd make sense to have an open category.

[–] sohh 11 points

Countdown until he’s re-educated like Macy Gray and walks back his statement.

I’ll be happy if I’m wrong.

I think you’ll be wrong — he’s lightly spoken out on this before and has given it some thought. He also dated a stealth transwoman so has more insight than many.

He has never admitted to having a relationship with that person, who claims to be intersex and raised as female. But the intersex person claims that they met on a dating app and had sex on the 1st date and that Michael Phelps was unaware that he was intersex. So it's not like he was intentionally pursuing a TiM.

Agreed, just to mention though that Michael Phelps’ ex is male and may or may not have a DSD, but is male regardless, and was raised male according to most interviews and repeatedly has identified as transgender.

"One of the hardest things ever for someone dealing with a gender challenge to deal with is an ex having a baby with another woman," Taylor Lianne Chandler wrote on Facebook. "It reinforces that lack of self worth, (of not) being woman enough. It amplifies that void already felt."

Lol

When Phelps was collared last fall, the National Enquirer reported that Phelps and Chandler were dating, with Chandler telling the tabloid that she "was born with male genitalia with no testicles, but I also have a uterus and no ovaries."

Hmmmmmm... has no idea this was possible with intersex people. Can anyone confirm? He’s saying he was born with a penis and a uterus?

His face says “all male” to me.

Aaaaand I googled him and apparently he went on to star in a hardcore porno with a dude who look like Phelps, medals around his neck and everything (no I didn’t see the explicit stuff, just the headline and the poster for it). Typical AGP crap.

Lol @ the idea of Phelps even being on a dating app. He’s super famous. Like wtf... not believable.

Why do people always forget that men's sports leagues are already "open"? For example, here in the States women are 100% allowed to compete in the NFL. Same with the NBA, etc etc. Nothing is stopping them, except good luck finding a 400 lb woman to be an offensive lineman.

Just keep shit the way it is.

this will be interesting because i've seen lots of TRAs online use him as their argument for why men should be allowed in women's sports, which amuses me because it's such a american thing to say.

I think that's the best approach. It neutralizes accusations that you're "just being transphobic" or "preventing trans people from competing at all."

I mean why shouldn't they be allowed to compete? Of course they should -- just not against women.

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