Yup - and I use the phrase "women are not weak men" when speaking to people in real life about this. I don't like to use the word "emasculate" much.

I use emasculate because they literally think become women if they chemically castrate themselves.

Men love to use women as an insult for other men who are emotionally or physically weak, then blame women when these guys take that insult to confirm that they really are women.

Why doesn't men have the word "cisgender" in front of it?

I didn't even notice at first. Why can't women just have our words back???? I'm a woman, not a fucking "cis" woman. UGH.

If a male decides to diminish his own muscle mass and can no longer compete in his own sport's sex segregated division, that is not the fault of women. If you choose to take estrogen to affirm your 'gender identity' - fucking deal with it. And deal with it amongst your fellow men, in men's facilities, divisions etc.

In short:

I do not care if it makes your life harder. - Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get to work. I do not care if you want to compete in sports after your transition and estrogen make it harder. - Just train harder! I do not care if you get angry about not being welcome in women's spaces - Go build your own spaces! I do not care if you are scared of how men will react to you. - Maybe you should just dress different! I do not care if you get upset that people refuse to affirm your identity - Stop being testericle.

I give absolutely zero shits about how these men feel on any level. As far as I am concerned they can perish alongside the rest of the incels and MRAs.

Wow, we needed this scientific study to learn things we already know:

  • Women are physically weaker than men.

  • Trans-identified men are often "failed" men in their minds and want to be female because they think weak male = female.

  • Cross sex hormones weaken men, but are not enough to keep them from being stronger than women.

[–] Hera 45 points

Wow, just like castrated dogs vs intact vs female ones. Who would have thought castrated males would have lower muscle mass that intact men but more than females! Next y'all are gonna tell me water is wet!

I bring up the cat/dog comparison all the time. We all spay and neuter our pets, but nobody thinks Sparky literally became a female dog just because a vet chopped off his balls. We don't think he's "less male" either, it's literally just "this is my dog he's a boy".

Dogs get more respect than human women.

I’m waiting for them to confirm that, just like with horses, geld a male and he gets stupider.

How many of these studies is it going to take to show what we all knew already?

“Total body fat was lower among transgender women than it was among other women, but higher than it was among men. Similarly, muscle mass was higher among transgender women than it was among women, but lower than it was among men. Grip strength was also greater in the transgender women than it was among women, as was cardiopulmonary function.”

Men on wrong-sex hormones are weakened males. Shocking🙄

“These are the first scientific data on the cardiopulmonary capacity of transgender women. The mean VO2 peak of non-athlete transgender women while performing physical exertion was higher than that of non-athlete cisgender women (p<0.05) and lower than that of cisgender men (p<0.0001).”

Can somebody who understands probability values explain what they mean in this context?

Because chemically castrated sex offenders never found they were a tad weaker, a smidge chubbier and less likely to get it up?

We typically use a p-value of < 0.05 as the threshold to reject a null hypothesis. In this case, it’s really just saying there’s less than a 5% chance that the mean VO2 peak value for TIMs and women are the same.

Thanks. What about the “cis”gender men? Is there a less than 0.01% chance that the mean VO2 peak value for TIMs is the same as for normal men? Why would the p-value be so different for TIMs and women and TIMs and normal men? I tried googling but I still don’t get it lol.

Tbh in this kind of scenario it feels like "Oh shit, we found out TIMs are in fact men, let's use misleading statistics to make it look like they're more likely to be comparable to women than they are to be comparable to other men". Which is not at all what those statistics say, but they are relying on the idea that the readers might not understand statistics well. The "lies, damned lies, and statistics" phrase works here.

It could just be that the men they sampled were fitter than the TIMs, or it could be an indication that female sex hormones are extremely damaging to men in this specific way. Or the sample sizes are just too small, and so are skewed one way. I’m sure there are other possible reasons too

[–] emissch 8 points Edited

As much as this is a "water is wet, more news at 11", moment, I'm overall stoked to see these findings come out. One thing I wish they would focus less on though is muscle mass, and more about the fundamental differences that cannot be altered with hormone "therapies".

TRAs can more easily argue about the muscle mass as it is subject to change. What they can't argue about are the fundamental differences of bone structure, organ size such as lungs and heart, hand size, etc. We need more studies focusing on those topics. There are a million factors that give men a biological advantage simply due to how their bodies are shaped--I don't understand why all the focus has to be about testosterone and muscle mass. head desk.gif

Seriously—a lot of what makes the male body advantageous for most sports isn’t just how much muscle they have. The wide gap in sex-based physical differences is still there even for men who are older, skinnier, shorter, less fit, or shooting up estrogen.

Their organs are larger, which gives them more power and endurance on top of their already larger musculature. Their hearts can pump more blood, they have wider airways and their lungs are more efficient at delivering oxygen. They’re taller, their limbs are longer, their hands and feet are larger. This obviously is going to make it far easier to catch, lift, throw, kick, and sprint faster with more power and distance.

In contact sports men can not only inflict more damage on a female opponent, they can also take more damage than a woman can without injury. Their bones are denser, their skin is thicker, they have a massive upper body strength advantage, their connective tissue is thicker and their joints are less prone to injury. Their stress response is also different. This is asking women to put themselves in a dangerous position that does not equally affect a male opponent, trans-identified or not.

This is clearly not an even playing field. There are only a few rare exceptions where a sport may give women a specific advantage over men collectively, or at the very least mitigate the typically overwhelming advantages men have and allows us to be occasionally competitive. But the vast majority of the time, the differences are just so extreme I can’t comprehend how people can be so willfully ignorant of the obvious.

the differences are just so extreme I can’t comprehend how people can be so willfully ignorant of the obvious.

Right! It drives me nuts that testosterone levels and muscle mass are almost exclusively the sole factors being debated right now in public about this. I'm sure those things are important, but it's probably like ~20% of the entire picture. The only person who I've seen bring mechanical advantages up in detail has been Joe Rogan when discussing this topic.

[–] nopenottoday 8 points Edited

It's interesting how there's so much research centered around men's wants and when men don't get what they want, they have enough power to rally for bullshit research to be done about it. Not just with these guys but with all guys. Y'all ever see that episode of Joe Rogan where some guy literally studies the difference between women that are beautiful but not hot and how men feel about them or some dumb shit like that?

No shit. And in other news, water is wet.

Which would be big news indeed, as they’ve been telling us since this nonsense started that water is dry.

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