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Anyone watching this???? An incredible follow up episode dealing with underlying themes of misogyny, body autonomy, and heavy trans undertones. It’s a follow up to the controversial Season 1 Moclan episode.

Spoilers to the Season 1 ep 3 Moclan episode and the newest episode below:

Season 1 ep 3 "About A Girl": Moclan alien culture is incredibly misogynistic to the point that they force trans all of their females into males and claim it’s a genetic abnormality to be born female at all. One of the main characters, Bortus, is a male Moclan and has a daughter (named Topa) born on the ship. There’s a huge legal fight as to whether or not to follow the Moclan customs (heavily pushed by Bortus and especially by his strict spouse) and to hand her over to the Moclans to trans her into a male. The Orville crew loses the trial on Moclan and end up having to hand over the girl for the procedure even after being given proof that there are a handful of hidden female Moclan pushing against the misogynistic culture. (anger inducing episode!).

Fast forward to Season 3 ep 5 "A Tale of Two Topas": Topa, the girl who was transed into a male as an infant, is now a young adolescent and feels something is deeply wrong, but has no idea that what was done to her. His/her role model is Commander Grayson (a prominent and strong woman character), and Topa confides in Grayson that she is very unhappy and does not know why. Topa even inquires about suicide at some point, which alarms Grayson. So to avoid problems with Topa's Moclan parents or create a possible political storm with their Moclan allies, Grayson finds a way to hint to Topa what the cause of her discomfort is by pointing to where she can discover information about the Moclan trial and the truth that she’s actually female. Cue lots of misogyny crap and violence/threats from Topa's deeply religious/ideological Moclan parent (and Bortus' spouse who is also female but transed as a child!). Topa is relieved and angered by this discovery (having been lied to her entire life by her parents), and now insists she be reverted back to her biological female body but because of politics with her home world Moclan, the Orville crew is prevented from interfering. Needless to say, the crew find a legal loophole to work around and the girl is restored to her natural female body. Soon after, the strict misogynistic Moclan parent packs up to leave and Topa pleads "I love you!" but the spouse turns and says to the child “I wish you were never born!” (Jesus). Bortus tries to appeal to his spouse for tolerance and love for family, but fails and lets his awful, brainwashed spouse leave (good!). The episode is very touching in the end, as now Topa is free from the abuse and misogynistic culture of her planet. Bortus' attitude also changes, and he now recognizes the hateful flaws of his planet’s ideology and proclaims to his fully restored daughter: "You are perfect."😭 It’s really an awesome episode for girls to watch, especially any struggling with gender woo at the moment! GIRLS, YOU REALLY ARE PERFECT!

Seth MacFarlene totally walking the GC line, but many TRAs are reading the episode as a boon to their own cause 😂 I suppose that’s why the writing is so clever and done in such a good way, as it could be read as justifications for both trans and GC ideals (but really they are ignoring some very clear anti transitioning child tones). Notably in the episode there was a clear line from the Orville doctor that the Planetary Union will NOT do trans procedures on children until they are adults (!) and their intervention at this age would only be justified as fixing the brutality that was done to Topa as an infant! (Yeah, fuck off Richard Levine and groomers). This reads clearly to me that Macfarlane is much more GC and against child transing, even though the episode could be twisted by TRAs and read as being pro body autonomy no matter what 🙄 Ultimately it’s a huge blow to sexists and misogynists and highlights some awesome women fighting for women as role models, so it’s a big win for us regardless of how the TRAs attempt to twist it. I highly recommend anyone with even a passing interest in Seth Macfarlane's brand of humor or sci fi to watch it, especially if you are at all a Star Trek fan.

Anyone watching this???? An incredible follow up episode dealing with underlying themes of misogyny, body autonomy, and heavy trans undertones. It’s a follow up to the controversial Season 1 Moclan episode. Spoilers to the Season 1 ep 3 Moclan episode and the newest episode below: >! Season 1 ep 3 "About A Girl": Moclan alien culture is incredibly misogynistic to the point that they force trans all of their females into males and claim it’s a genetic abnormality to be born female at all. One of the main characters, Bortus, is a male Moclan and has a daughter (named Topa) born on the ship. There’s a huge legal fight as to whether or not to follow the Moclan customs (heavily pushed by Bortus and especially by his strict spouse) and to hand her over to the Moclans to trans her into a male. The Orville crew loses the trial on Moclan and end up having to hand over the girl for the procedure even after being given proof that there are a handful of hidden female Moclan pushing against the misogynistic culture. (anger inducing episode!). !< >!Fast forward to Season 3 ep 5 "A Tale of Two Topas": Topa, the girl who was transed into a male as an infant, is now a young adolescent and feels something is deeply wrong, but has no idea that what was done to her. His/her role model is Commander Grayson (a prominent and strong woman character), and Topa confides in Grayson that she is very unhappy and does not know why. Topa even inquires about suicide at some point, which alarms Grayson. So to avoid problems with Topa's Moclan parents or create a possible political storm with their Moclan allies, Grayson finds a way to hint to Topa what the cause of her discomfort is by pointing to where she can discover information about the Moclan trial and the truth that she’s actually female. Cue lots of misogyny crap and violence/threats from Topa's deeply religious/ideological Moclan parent (and Bortus' spouse who is also female but transed as a child!). Topa is relieved and angered by this discovery (having been lied to her entire life by her parents), and now insists she be reverted back to her biological female body but because of politics with her home world Moclan, the Orville crew is prevented from interfering. Needless to say, the crew find a legal loophole to work around and the girl is restored to her natural female body. Soon after, the strict misogynistic Moclan parent packs up to leave and Topa pleads "I love you!" but the spouse turns and says to the child “I wish you were never born!” (Jesus). Bortus tries to appeal to his spouse for tolerance and love for family, but fails and lets his awful, brainwashed spouse leave (good!). The episode is very touching in the end, as now Topa is free from the abuse and misogynistic culture of her planet. Bortus' attitude also changes, and he now recognizes the hateful flaws of his planet’s ideology and proclaims to his fully restored daughter: "You are perfect."😭 It’s really an awesome episode for girls to watch, especially any struggling with gender woo at the moment! GIRLS, YOU REALLY ARE PERFECT! !< Seth MacFarlene totally walking the GC line, but many TRAs are reading the episode as a boon to their own cause 😂 I suppose that’s why the writing is so clever and done in such a good way, as it could be read as justifications for both trans and GC ideals (but really they are ignoring some very clear anti transitioning child tones). Notably in the episode there was a >! clear line from the Orville doctor that the Planetary Union will NOT do trans procedures on children until they are adults (!) and their intervention at this age would only be justified as fixing the brutality that was done to Topa as an infant! (Yeah, fuck off Richard Levine and groomers). !< This reads clearly to me that Macfarlane is much more GC and against child transing, even though the episode could be twisted by TRAs and read as being pro body autonomy no matter what 🙄 Ultimately it’s a huge blow to sexists and misogynists and highlights some awesome women fighting for women as role models, so it’s a big win for us regardless of how the TRAs attempt to twist it. I highly recommend anyone with even a passing interest in Seth Macfarlane's brand of humor or sci fi to watch it, especially if you are at all a Star Trek fan.

22 comments

Great summary — I actually just watched this Orville episode, and was so struck by the seemingly gender critical (and overall uplifting anti-misogynistic) message that I came here to check if anyone else was discussing it. Interestingly, the person I was watching it with remarked that it could be read as pro trans (i.e. she could feel her true “gender identity” all along or some such) so I think you’re completely right about the clever writing aspect of it — it ends up being like one of those illustrations that can be a face or a wine glass depending on how you look at it.

Exactly! I definitely picked up how it could be seen two ways. The "inner gender soul" thing is so dumb though and very much their own projection of their ideology, much like how they twist John Money's gross experimentations to justify their agenda :x Topa never had a gender soul, she simply had a FEMALE BODY that had been mutilated, and that's it. A soul or gender preference was never ever mentioned in any episode. TRAs are really going to go die on a faith based hill where everyone has some magic, religious inner gender souls or some unproven psuedoscience about being born in the wrong bodies... it's dumb. Very clearly this episode was against children doing transgender transitions.

MacFarlane has mocked transgenderism in his animated show already. There' s a scene of Family Guy you can probably find on the internet about a "woman" at a bar watching porn and the waiter going "You cannot do that here!", to which the "woman" replies "I am transgender!". At this point the waiter tells him "Oh, by all means, carry on then.".

I also remember years ago him saying something like that he didn' t want to share his opinions on trans issues because it was a minefield and he was going to be canceled, which means pretty obviously that he was not a fan. It seems like that feeling never went away, and now that he feels more secure to speak out, he is doing it. Good for him.

The first season episode of the Orville you are talking about was clearly done as a criticism of trans children, and this one is as well: the TRAs who are pretending like it' s done for their sake are using their same tactic of twisting people' s words and work to show that they have visible allies and that everyone is on their side.

On a personal note, I am still baffled by the fact that The Orville is the only decent space opera show airing nowadays, and it truly is a better Star Trek show than the current official Star Trek shows that are being produced. And I am not just talking about gender issues here, it is just written better, with better character development, it has a "monster of the week" structure and every episode just feels like watching TNG, with silly moments but also moral teachings. I will be honest, I have never thought MacFarlane could deliver something like that, and I am incredibly pissed off that the network the show is on forced him to include raunchy comedy here and there instead of letting him do whatever he wanted from the beginning.

[–] Intuiterf 5 points Edited

the waiter tells him "Oh, by all means, carry on then."

The actual quote is better- "Oh ok, do whatever you want all the time" lol

Good for him! Go Seth :) That very clearly explains why he had to use a lighter political touch on the episode, which unfortunately gave way to some TRAs interpreting it differently. Hah. He's clever to avoid that minefield.

But yes, the no transing kids message is very, very obvious. So I'm surprised to see some TRA's blindness to it. I assume because the girl ends up going through the procedure against her parent's wishes that they see that as an okay to children choosing to "trans" themselves, or something convoluted -- but it was clearly explained that the crew would just be fixing the abuse that was done to her as an infant and it was NOT a regular operation given to children at all under their standards of care.

On a personal note, I am still baffled by the fact that The Orville is the only decent space opera show airing nowadays, and it truly is a better Star Trek show than the current official Star Trek shows that are being produced. And I am not just talking about gender issues here, it is just written better, with better character development, it has a "monster of the week" structure and every episode just feels like watching TNG, with silly moments but also moral teachings. I will be honest, I have never thought MacFarlane could deliver something like that, and I am incredibly pissed off that the network the show is on forced him to include raunchy comedy here and there instead of letting him do whatever he wanted from the beginning.

I completely agree! My husband and I adore The Orville and love it way more than any of the numerous new Treks being released (and we've watched almost all of them ..)

So I'm surprised to see some TRA's blindness to it

I don' t think they are blind, I think they know perfectly well what the message of the episode is, but they decided to pretend otherwise to push the idea that the show is supportive of them.

It' s like when they call us conservative: they know we are not, but it' s easier for them to paint us as the bad guys if we are considered right wingers, because if they were honest, then it would raise more questions that they are able to answer. Same goes for the show: it' s easier for them to spread the lie that it supports them than admitting that it criticizes them and then facing whatever discourse might come as a result.

I am incredibly pissed off that the network the show is on forced him to include raunchy comedy here and there instead of letting him do whatever he wanted from the beginning.

Is there any reason to think that isn't what he'd want to do anyway?

I think he was more oriented on doing a serious homage to Star Trek than making fart and sex jokes. I remember him saying that he was told to include stuff like that because the network was worried that people associate him with that kind of storytelling and would have been confused at not finding any in what he wanted to do.

Have you ever watched Strange New Worlds? t is very much old school Star Trek! I am really enjoying Orville as well!

I've been meaning to watch the Orville ever since I saw the show's cover of "All I Have To Say" from The Last Unicorn. I was wary when I saw TRAs gush about this latest episode. But its a relief to see that, as usual, TRAs are too stupid to understand a story about misogyny.

Plus, I'm inclined to believe that the guy who did this scene is a TERF sympathizer. 🤣

show's cover of "All I Have To Say" from The Last Unicorn.

Yes! My most cherished and loved movie from childhood. I also adored that scene in Orville. I’ve been waiting for years to see if a studio would pick up The Last Unicorn to make a live action of :(((

One of my earliest memories is getting Last Unicorn for my birthday and being traumatized by the Harpy and the Boob Tree. Apparently, my aunt thought she had bought me a My Little Pony video. 🤣

I'd be very apprehensive about any modern studios doing a live action adaptation of The Last Unicorn. I fear they'd either fill it with Girl Boss faux feminist nonsense, woke bullshit, or they'd chicken out and find an excuse to let Lir & Amalthea be together in the end

Ugh you’re right they would definitely try to wokify it. I’ve seen quite a few TiMs claiming the story represents them 🤮

I haven't watched the new Orille season yet, and I am really excited to watch it! It is funny how Seth Macfarlane seems like he would be a huge misogynist, but /i guess he isn't.

It's been a really good season (and series overall) and I particularly enjoyed this episode. It is quite remarkable that a comedy writer/producer has been able to produce/create such a wonderful star trek sci-fi series. I've been trying to enjoy Star Trek: Brave New Worlds but it's trying too hard to be like Orville and the pro trans episode two weeks ago had me rolling my eyes.

A number of TiMs claim to be intersex and that them transitioning is just correcting a mistake made by doctors at birth, so they'll probably identify with the episode as it supports their narrative.

Topa was just female though, not intersex at all. TRAs be doing some major mental gymnastics to make that one make sense. They’re definitely deluded enough to go there.

I haven't seen this episode yet but I loved the previous episodes in this plotline, SPOILERS

The reveal that there was an all female society of Moclan hiding away from the males (+transed at birth females) that wanted to either genocide them or force-trans them. They were on a different planet across the universe and the men still couldn't just leave them the fuck alone.

Moclans believe females are weaker, underformed, males, and transitioning them to males simply fixes a birth defect. I thought this was a very direct prediction of where gender/trans ideology could lead us, with our society embracing the idea that women are, well... weaker, underformed, defected men, with girls as young as 13 are seeking transition and getting double mascectomies, and parents deciding their 2 year old toddler is trans. It was like looking a the future where this ideology is allowed to go unchecked.

I went on the Orville subreddit once a while back to see if there were any discussions on those episodes and what happened to Topa, and I found a bunch of comments saying things like "Look at the female Moclan, they ARE smaller and weaker than the males, so they're actually doing them a favor by transitioning them as babies before they even care or know" or comparing it to intersex or corrective surgeries. And all of these comments had a ton of upvotes. I was shocked just how many people were agreeing and finding nothing to criticize about the practice, but rather praising it as the right thing to do. TRAs see these episodes and think it's a positive message about transition. But that's because they hate the female sex and see nothing wrong with erasing it entirely. Anyone who doesn't hate women is going to watch these episodes and know how wrong it is to transition a baby at birth just because she's female and that the Moclan females deserve an all female society galaxies away from the men trying to murder them.

The vast majority of people on Reddit do think that being female is a kind of birth defect, and I am including the female users in that. There is no more anti-woman place on the internet, except maybe 4chan or really fringe places.