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I watched Leaving Neverland yesterday (I know I’m late to the party by a few years) and was wondering what everyone’s opinions are?

What do you think of the documentary itself?

Do you believe Michael Jackson to be innocent or guilty?

I have never known a celebrity to have more erm...passionate (or rabid) fans than MJ and so I recognise this may be controversial discussion.

I thought the documentary handled the distressing subject matter well. It was well put together and obviously hard to watch at times.

Personally I lean strongly towards believing the victims. I can’t believe any parent could allow their child to sleep alone in the same room (let alone bed) as a grown man who isn’t their father. Those parents were wilfully neglectful and stupid and were essentially pimping their sons out IMO.

I don’t buy the arguments that he was “like a child” or that his actions were not nefarious. He displayed recognisable patterns of grooming and pedophilia. Due to fame, blind adoration of the masses, and talent, he got away with it.

Saying all that, the documentary is one sided (nothing wrong with that) so I’m unaware of MJ’s defence or any surrounding context.

Ultimately we’ll never know for certain. To me it’s just another case of famous men getting away with depraved and disgusting crimes. Being elevated to godlike status because they have talent or charm (usually overhyped talent and charm at that)

Please share your thoughts, I’d love to hear them :)

I watched Leaving Neverland yesterday (I know I’m late to the party by a few years) and was wondering what everyone’s opinions are? What do you think of the documentary itself? Do you believe Michael Jackson to be innocent or guilty? I have never known a celebrity to have more erm...passionate (or rabid) fans than MJ and so I recognise this may be controversial discussion. I thought the documentary handled the distressing subject matter well. It was well put together and obviously hard to watch at times. Personally I lean strongly towards believing the victims. I can’t believe any parent could allow their child to sleep alone in the same room (let alone bed) as a grown man who isn’t their father. Those parents were wilfully neglectful and stupid and were essentially pimping their sons out IMO. I don’t buy the arguments that he was “like a child” or that his actions were not nefarious. He displayed recognisable patterns of grooming and pedophilia. Due to fame, blind adoration of the masses, and talent, he got away with it. Saying all that, the documentary is one sided (nothing wrong with that) so I’m unaware of MJ’s defence or any surrounding context. Ultimately we’ll never know for certain. To me it’s just another case of famous men getting away with depraved and disgusting crimes. Being elevated to godlike status because they have talent or charm (usually overhyped talent and charm at that) Please share your thoughts, I’d love to hear them :)

43 comments

Fake as fuck. Wade was broke and upset the MJ estate wouldn't hire him so he filed a lawsuit under seal in attempt to get paid. Guy was caught by the judge making up narratives and plagiarizing his story from a 1997 book written by an actual pedophile. Safechuck is also a clown because he was caught lying and buying props off Etsy he tried to claim MJ gave him in some weird mock wedding ceremony. Kid was hardly ever around MJ and also stated he was molested in a train station that wasn't built until he was a teenager. These two aren't victims, and any form of critical thinking will lead any rational person to the correct conclusion that they lied for money. Also to the people saying you can't fake those emotions... there's literally footage of them being coached how to act like look sad by the director Dan Reed. Give me a break. Of all the criminal investigations I've profiled this has to be the most ridiculous.

[–] Tiramisuomi 2 points Edited

It shattered my heart in a million pieces to hear Wade describe his last convo with MJ and how he had to explain there was a new boy in his life, but it didn't mean he wasn't special anymore.

How fucking sick is it that a child had to learn about "romantic" betrayal that young? For that sting of rejection, plus more. How devastated he must have been, the poor thing. I hope the parents hate themselves.

I think he was guilty as hell.

But I also believe that man couldn't have dug his way to reality with 70 shovels and a backhoe. This won't be popular, but if there was ever a case of "he just didn't know any better", this would be the closest you could get. He was so profoundly developmentally damaged and his perspective skewed from so early on. If you watch the doc, it even shows how he would spend time with these kids families too, like he was searching for normalcy....it wasn't just about the sexual aspect.

Doesn't make any of it ok, but I think he was uniquely destroyed as a human being. Maybe someday they'll talk about that too.

Obvious pedophile is obvious. I can't believe there are still people defending Michael Jackson. How many more fucking red flags could there be? If he was some random non-famous pedophile, he would have done time. It's crazy that people can somehow force themselves to believe that all 5 admitted victims and their families are just lying about rape and abuse for shits and giggles.

This x 1000

People get swept up in idolizing MJ (and honestly pretty much every other public and even some private figures) and excuse his bs. He’s a pedo full stop. The evidence is too overwhelming and too damning.

But he also just comes off as a creep. He was a cute/sweet kid, but as he got older, his multiple surgeries and general Peter Pan like demeanor and strangely close relationship with children couldn’t be more alarming (even before accusations flooded in about him).

Yeah, he died when I was like 13 or 14, but my general impression of Michael Jackson was this creepy, weird person. I hadn't listened to his music and didn't have memories from his earlier years of stardom.

Even in his filmed interactions with the boys in the documentary, it was fucking obvious. There was this one video of him with the older accuser, James, doing a photo shoot. Their body language was not right. Even people who saw them on tour suspected something was not normal with him and that little boy. I don't believe the mom of that kid didn't know what was going on. I think she at least suspected, but she let it continue.

[–] MiMi2013 2 points Edited

Back in 1985, I was in college , and I remember reading several 'faux-feud' articles published in the mainstream media of the day, vis a vis MJ and Prince. And the thing I thought weird back then, as a 20 year old, and what I still think is weird all these decades later, were the letters to the editor published in response to the articles, from parents touting MJ above Prince, because of MJ being a "good role model" due to his lack of an apparent sex drive. Like, the guy's a few years older than me, and I am supposed to think a lack of a sex drive somehow makes him "wholesome", and not messed up-?

He definitely was perceived back then as being pretty much asexual, which probably explained the agents' insistence, not much later , on marrying (Bleurgh-!) "The King Of Rock" to the "Princess of Pop" , Lisa Marie Presley. That marriage was the weirdest thing about the weirdest decade .

I haven't done a deep enough dive to say whether MJ's guilty, but I do recall that back in the Reagan Era, people really seem to have thought that he was a nonsexual person.

[–] notyourfetish 6 points Edited

My mother was a huge MJ fan growing up, so I was a fan by proxy and didn't want to believe it was true for years.

Then I started doing "research" and it all clicked into place: MJ was a misognyistic gay man with AGP. His AGP manifested in trying to look like women he admired with surgery, rather than just cross dressing. All the women Micheal dated were women he wanted to BE.

I also think he was molested as a child, which stunted his emotional growth. Just the end result of alot of sexual and psychological abuse and too much fame too young, too fast. (Not excusing MJ, just stating facts).

The year Leaving Neverland came out, I was dealing with my own childhood trauma and in the process of cutting my abusive mother from my life, packing my shit, and moving far away from her. I was essentially an emotional mess.

Then I looked at LN and I saw myself in James Safechuck. His eyes were so haunted. It was exactly how I felt -- like I had been violated, because I had come to the realization that I had been manipulated and gas lighted (mind controlled) my entire life and thirty years had been stolen from me: my childhood, adolescence, and all the years it took trying to undo the trauma and damage.

You can't fake the kind of haunted look Safechuck had while talking about what happened to him. The greatest actresses are thinking about some fucked up shit that happened to them whenever they do that look on camera.

Also, at the time, I was in a place where my I knew no one would believe me. My ... unmother...is a covert malignant narcisst, which means she's very charming, a good liar, and had people convinced for years that she was good person.

If I tried to speak out, I knew no one would listen. Even I was fooled by that monster for years into thinking she was the nicest person ever, and I was just mentally ill and imagining the abuse and I'd better take my mind numbing pills again to forget about it -- as my abuser kept sweetly advising me.

MJ did the same exact shit. He drugged those kids and raped them, then told them for years that the molestation was love, while charming the rest of the world into thinking he was such a great person.

Oh, yes. No WONDER my evil-ass mother adored him. My mother saw herself in MJ (she also had abusive parents and was molested) and I saw myself in MJ's broken, confused victims.

Yes, I definitely believe he was guilty.

James Safechuck made an impression on me too. You could hear the trauma in his voice when he talked about it.

Personally, I think he’s guilty. For one, how many celebrity men have been accused of sexual violence and actually turned out to be innocent? Secondly, there was an interview with Macaulay Culkin said he shared a bed with MJ, a grown ass man. No adult in their right mind would share a bed with a child, especially one that isn’t even there. Even if there was no sexual contact, that is vastly inappropriate.

In the 2000s, I believed he was probably innocent. I was much more naive back then, and I didn't know much about how child predators operate. I bought into the "reliving my lost childhood" excuse. He was clearly mentally unstable, and I thought that was why he couldn't see how utterly creepy it was to share his bed with children.

As a grown woman, I have no doubt that he abused those boys. I wouldn't generally say that about someone who had been found not guilty and was no longer alive to defend himself, but these are truly exceptional circumstances. We're talking about someone who went on global television and announced that he likes to sleep with young boys AFTER paying an obscene amount to settle a child molestation case out of court.

“Reliving a lost childhood” is also how many TIMs justify pedophilic and twee behaviors. I’m not a creepy 50-year-old calling myself a girl and wishing I could have pillow fights in lingerie like all the girls totally did as kids. I’m simply reclaiming a lost childhood!

I think Michael Jackson is "guilty". I think it's a case of "when somebody shows you who they are, believe them". It was so blatant that it seems like it couldn't have happened that way, but extremely wealthy people operate with impunity, as we've learned from Cosby, Weinstein, Epstein and Jackson too.

[–] chai_tea 11 points Edited

There's no doubt in my mind that he abused those kids. Check out this article https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/03/10-undeniable-facts-about-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations Also the rest of the articles by that author, she's been covering the topic for a long time, way before this doc.

This site http://www.mjfacts.com/ also is worth reading, and when you see the pictures of all his "friends" you can def see he had a type. The worst piece of evidence to me is when Jordan Chandler identified correctly the splotches on MJ's penis. http://www.mjfacts.com/300lb-gorilla/

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