[–] Tortoisemouse 17 points Edited

The comment from bor997 is so sad. And also confusing.

It sounds as though she's constantly hovering on the edge of transition and detransition. She "came out as a trans man at 16" but also "wasn't able to explore being butch until recently after being on T for 4 years and top surgery". She says dating can be difficult for her: "dating as a butch who can pass as a guy can be kinda awkward" because "there are plenty of lesbians who would be put off by my appearance and by me passing as a guy frequently".

She also says, "I never felt good about my body or attractive at all before T".

It's seriously tragic how many TiFs are butch lesbians who are rejected by society and rejected by themselves. I feel so angry with society for doing this to lesbians.

Someone said on another thread how trans ideology is the opposite of what "LGBT Pride" is meant to be. Instead of being proud of who they really are, butch lesbians are increasingly ashamed of their bodies and themselves and are medicating and surgically altering themselves to fit in with some idea of how they are "meant" to be.

P.S. How can you be "butch" (which in lesbian culture means a butch lesbian, right?) and yet at the same time be a trans man? I don't get it.

P.S. How can you be "butch" (which in lesbian culture means a butch lesbian, right?) and yet at the same time be a trans man? I don't get it.

It's been a thing. TiFs that are same-sex attracted will still call themselves lesbians, but still be "men" at the same time. It's a whole on going debate in the trans community. Both the truscums, and a lot of wokies hate them.

[–] SaintHedwig 6 points Edited

P.S. How can you be "butch" (which in lesbian culture means a butch lesbian, right?) and yet at the same time be a trans man? I don't get it.

The newest terms are "transfemme" and "transmasc", I think implying that they're GNC men and women respectively but sometimes that includes cross-sex hormones without the intention of outright identifying as the other sex. Basically everything Ellen Page's been doing recently but without the name change.

Thank you.

So in the land of Trans, if you are transfemme then you are also fine with being called a man, and if you are transmasc then you are fine with being called a woman?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, because in the land of trans everything is made up and words have no concrete meaning anymore.

oh look another Saint here

On your point about Ellen Page. I can definitely see Ellen looking through groups like this and getting in her head she's a trans"man" / NB (?) because she likes the masculine aesthetic. She has so many common traits with the other women in this group.

Maybe this is just me but I can't see how this is worth it for any woman. You get all these health risks, and for what, a bigger clitoris? Or take the one talking about fat distribution: she's trading in the objectively healthier fat distribution for the one associated with more health risks... and this is a good thing? I just can't wrap my head around someone being fine with stuff like increased risk of cardiovascular diseases just to look a certain way. And sure, like one mentions you can maybe avoid misogyny in some specific circumstances but while you can take action to do something about that, osteoporosis and dementia are always going to suck.

As a gold star soft butch, I don't understand why you would ever want any of this. Why would you want your clit to resemble a micropenis? Why would you want to smell like a noxious scrote? That's fucking disgusting. And to risk your health for these things? Why? It's tragic.

As a gold star soft butch

Aayy same!

I've seen some, not necessarily butch women but general NBs wanting to go on a small amount of T or a better jawline (just do some facial exercises instead of going on T jeez), deep voice, smaller hips, and weight loss. It's all aesthetic. Yet doctors are giving out this "life saving care" like candy. Of course looking through their accounts some of them have eating disorders, depression, anxiety, and body dysphoria (not gender dysphoria) this is so sad...

Image Transcription: Reddit

Some questions for butches on T, from a t-butch wannabe, posted by u/effectivecontrol2242

Feel free to answer all, some, or none of these

  1. What's your doseage, and do you cycle at all?

  2. Do you plan on being on T indefinitely?

  3. How has going on t affected your dating life?



I'm at 0.25 for a starting does, going onto my second month now. I've been in a long term relationship and she was very understanding and kinda expected me to go on T even before I did lol. Some of the changes are awkward to go through, like when I started to stink really bad or got grumpy for a week. If I was still dating I would probably not be super committal for a while. It really is a second puberty and some freedom to explore your changing body and emotions would be good I think. I haven't had any major changes yet but it feels good to have some control of my body and its future.


Thanks so much for the feedback, appreciate it


Not sure if I'm what you're looking for but I'm on a small amount of topical T for clit growth (5 mg a day) and my testosterone levels are near the very low end ofthe male range, even though you can't tell by looking at me. No one has noticed that I'm on it unless I told them. My sex drive is higher, muscle growth is easier, and I now have a happy trail and slightly darker facial hair {which I remove as I don't want it}. Plus the clit growth, of course. My voice and body fat distribution haven't changed. I'm enjoying it, though I probably won't stay on it forever. I'm trying to do more weight training and take advantage of the chance to build more muscle while I'm on it. As for dating, I'm married and my spouse is bi so it doesn't really play a role.


Thanks so much for this, appreciate it


Hey, do you mind if I reach in private? I was looking for someone with this experience. Very much appreciated


Yeah sure, shoot me a DM


I'm on a 0.5mg injection weekly, which is a normal/high-ish dose from my understanding. I'm somewhat bad about missing doses but I don't have any period symptoms other than occasional bloatinglcramping that isn't half as severe as it would be during an actual period. I notice some mood swings, but for me that'sjust excess anxiety when I miss too many shots. (Not anxiety due to missing shots, to be clear. Tjust improves my anxiety, I don't notice any aggression though.)

I plan on being on T indefinitely for numerous reasons. I have pretty severe dysphoria, enough that I came out as a trans man at 16 and wasn't able explore being butch until recently after being on T for 4 years and having top surgery. So the idea of fat redistributing and making me more curvy again is really stressful. T also dramatically improves my mood and I enjoy not having periods.

That being said, dating as a butch who can pass as a guy can be kinda awkward. I get uncomfortable when I'm seen as a man by other LGBT people even though sometimes it makes me feel safer when I'm in public. I know there are plenty of lesbians who would be put off by my appearance and by me passing as a guy frequently. This could be less ofa problem for someone treating less severe dysphoria who might be on a lower dose andior not on it for as long. But ultimately the confidence in my body has been worth it for me, because I never felt good about my body or attractive at all before T, which was way worse for my dating life.


I'm on .7 dose subcutaneously though I am bad at remembering my dose. I wish they figured out an oral T pill that didn't fuck with your liver already. A once daily pill would be much easier for me to do (since I already take daily meds) than trying to remember to take a shot every week. Especially as they only let me get 2 doses at a time so I have to remember to go to the pharmacy every other week.

I've been on T for coming up on 3 years (started with a lower dose) and this current time have no plans to stop. I never want to have a period again and ifI can achieve that without further surgery, the better.

T hasn't really affected my dating life any but I also primarily date other trans people.


  1. I'm on .15 a week, I don't plan to cycle but I will stop for months at a time then start again

  2. I don't plan on it but it does do a lot for my mood so maybe. I've been trying to just kind of go with how I feel in the moment if that makes sense at all.

  3. I've only been in long term relationships so I can't speak much to this one


Awesome, thanks

"My spouse is bi so doesn't really play into it."

They love to assume that bisexuals will just fuck anything and anyone, huh?

Yeah, the trans community's perception of bisexuals, particularly bi women, as an open sexual resource or dumping ground is creepy. The cotton ceiling with lesbians is horrible, along with their commonly casual remarks about assuming bisexuals will sleep with them showcase a low view of women. Funnily*, 70% of the RF/GCs I come across are bi sooo, so maybe they're completely wrong lol, if it wasn't already obvious.

Why do they want to mess around with testosterone? I find it mind boggling as I see no reason why a self proclaimed butch lesbian woman should be on T? But I am bland straight so the fuck do I know.

I am a butch lesbian and I don't get it. 🤷‍♀️

Ah, yeah, I should be more specific in my tone of voice: I'm quite used to being dismissed by TRAs because I am straight, and not the Spicy Straight equivalent. :D

Still mind boggling, what do some think to achieve with taking T? More body hair? A nice booming deep voice? The body hair might work, the voice: not a chance. Most sound like they have throat infection or something.

[–] [Deleted] 4 points Edited

It's for aesthetics

They think it looks cool

Wow, it really doesn’t look cool. I’d be more likely to be attracted to either a woman or a man but not some odd chimera of the two. No matter what biology the person has or what orientation is used to define it. People are attractive (or not) not a person trying to invent something that doesn’t exist in nature as far as mammals are concerned.