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How about you tolerate "misgendering" and "wrong bathrooms" then?

Replace "trans" with "gender critical" and watch their heads spin.

Most of us do tolerate men prancing around public spaces in womanface, no matter how offensive we find it. But we won’t tolerate being made to lie, or give up female-only spaces. Laurie has limits to her tolerance too, I expect.

[–] spaghettiforhair LiTeRaLlYvIoLeNt 6 points

Exactly. While I'm not really a fan of men dressing up as offensive caricatures of women, I don't really give a shit which clothes someone wears or which cosmetic medicalization an adult pursues. I can tolerate anything so long as it's not hurting anyone, but the trans movement has crossed that line.

[–] GCRadFem 12 points

Part of being being an adult in a liberal society is learning to ‘tolerate’ your own discomfort, rather than attacking and demonizing anyone you feel uncomfortable about

I love (not at all) when TRAS scold and school

Here, I will try it:

Part of being being an adult in a liberal society is learning to ‘tolerate’ your own discomfort, rather than attacking and demonizing anyone lesbians when you feel uncomfortable about our sexuality

Oh, it works.

[–] cousinanger 13 points Edited

Laurie is a gift which keeps on giving. She pretty much justified the Cologne mass sexual harassment based on the fact that at least the German women and girls (and some men) who got attacked owned cell phones/mobiles. Sorry, got that wrong. It was Gaby Hinshliff at the Guardian.

Then she became a nonbinary person, to remain more relevant and to get a higher spot on the wokerati's oppression hierarchies (she is a white woman with elite education).

And yes, she kindly explains what must be the reason for our unease as we cannot possibly have thought out these things through ourselves. She also seems to suggest that we should tolerate someone taking our rights away and just get used to it.

I read the Gaby Hinshiliff article differently. She was, I think, saying, not that the German women's lifestyle was to blame, but that the young men were likely incensed by seeing women so happy and free because in their culture at home that wasn't the case, they could even make sure of it, whereas in Germany they were powerless. But I thought she did not make clear that this does not make it not their fault. An explanation isn't a justification.

The problem is finding ways of saying, 'If they had good well-paying jobs and good housing and were free from racial harassment, this wouldn't have happened', without saying, 'Those crimes are entirely society's fault because of not giving them these things.' And she certainly doesn't say the most obvious thing: that those men need to be educated in the shared values of the country they have moved to, and abide by them.

Then the problem is how to get this done, especially inside an immigrant community. It's still the case that in Moslem communities in the north of the UK, it is men who have held onto all the social and economic power, and these men use their community ties to gain political power and exclude outsiders from it. They control how people in the community vote (one way that postal voting can be not a good thing). This won't change until the girls and women in the community break free of it, but the weapons of shaming and ostracism are very powerful. It's a mess.

I agree with you, of course, on those issues and the problem with some minority cultures in multicultural societies being much more patriarchal than other cultures. There's a problem with the idea that all cultures should be equally respected in all different fields, because that will built-in inequality for women and sexual minorities in some of them. But there's also the problem of racism and bigotry against Muslims, and finding the proper balance between this is like navigating dangerous waters with a lot of underwater obstacles.

Also, on Cologne, it was later established that the men who were arrested after the Cologne events were not asylum seekers from Syria etc. but economic migrants without residence permits from Tunisia, Algeria and so on. They had no chance of getting asylum and were not in Germany because of their terrible experiences of recent war. So the early takes by feminist were actually addressing a different situation than what actually occurred.

She pretty much justified the Cologne mass sexual harassment based on the fact that at least the German women and girls (and some men) who got attacked owned cell phones/mobiles.

Wtf? Do you remember where/when she said this?

I heard some pretty abhorrent comments from "progressives" after this event. It's not all that surprising but disappointing nevertheless.

I am sorry, I got that wrong. This is the second time I remember something wrong (I am going to double-check everything from now on).

The one who said that about the smart phones was Gaby Hinshliff in the Guardian.

Laurie Penny gave the usual response of most mainstream feminists which was asking why is sexual harassment a problem for the political right in the West only when it is carried out by immigrants or asylum seekers etc and not when it is carried out by white men. Which would be an acceptable SECOND response to the events had there been a first response focusing on the victims of the harassment. But this is all Penny wrote on the topic, and this is what most lib fems and such sites wrote about the issue which was to focus on the political division between men of different religions and on when it is permissible to point out their misogyny.

[–] hmimperialtortie 🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈 4 points

hierarchies (she is a white woman with elite education)

Well that was money down the drain!

Weird how tolerance is a one-way street. Almost like it's really about subjugation and submission instead.

If they pass, then how can they be visible? I thought we were constantly surrounded by trans people and didn't even know it because they blended in so well. So which is it?

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