I can't wait for this to be over.

Imagine being in a world with the free time to explore art, nature, poetry, delicious food, and cinema, and using it for breaking the way pronouns work and worrying whether gender ghosts have made your girl brain too itchy to exist with your testicular goblins.

Exactly. When this kid could be putting his energies or enjoyment into the substance of the assignment -- i.e. analyzing and appreciating poetry -- he is preoccupied with fucking 'they/them' pronouns. How impoverished will the thinking patterns and priorities of these young people get before the ship turns around -- it's really sad.

Let me get this straight - according to this kid the teacher had solid 10 minutes of arguments, and not only did the student not bother to reflect on the points made by the teacher, but also expects the internet to come up with a rebuttal. They literally want to teach a teacher before they have started to use their own brain. I have more respect for the flat-earthers.

Thats the problem.

This is one kid, but she is a member of an entire generation of college students who have no critical thinking skills. This group cannot consider or tolerate alternative viewpoints but can only parrot back arguments from the group they are most terrified of upsetting.

I think kids have always been that way (at least I was). The difference is nobody enabled me and I learned that I should expect to be challenged on my views by older and more experienced people. These kids are not being challenged and it's such a shame. Half of what you learn in college is just learning that it's OK to be wrong.

It's worse than not being challenged. They're being told that any challenges they meet are wrong because their cause is righteous. They're being encouraged to reject any challenge to their worldview, and as a result they're not growing intellectually, and they're becoming more and more dogmatic. This is a generation of future inquisitors.

[–] SecondSkin 8 points Edited

I had a modern studies teacher who adapted his own version of the coloured hat exercise. Every week he made us rotate tables to a new political party and argue the class discussion topic from the perspective of a candidate from said political party (Scotland, so many more political parties than US). It didn’t matter which we agreed with, just that we learned to see the strengths and weaknesses in each and use them within the debate. We were all horrified initially (because in poor Scottish working class towns hating Tories is a sign you belong) but it was a valuable lesson to learn.

Exactly, it's like they're in a cult

But there are a surprising number of young radfems, they give me hope. I'm secretly teaching my niece about radical feminism without telling her that's what it is bc my brother (her dad)is a horrible misogynist who would lose it if he hears her saying the dreaded f-word. She's 9. She gives me hope too

[–] SecondSkin 15 points Edited

Actually I had to explain this same rule to a deputy head who is also sendco/dsl and a fucking English teacher recently. And who must be 50 ish, so did her English degree before my late 90s one. Where the professors were very firm that they in formal language is plural only. That unisex is she/he or he/she because substituting they is one of the worst grammar mistakes because it confuses meaning.

So lacking critical thinking skills has somehow filtered upwards. Even in those who would have learned this before I did.

(Among all the other awful things gender ideology has done, making the whole world THIS FUCKING STUPID is another irksome camel back straw)

This kid's convictions must be flimsy if they can't come up with arguments. For things I'm passionate about I can defend them no problem.

I don't think that's what the kid was asking. They seem pretty clear on their argument, just asking how to frame it in a way that doesn't sound hostile. I actually really respect that -- it shows a maturity that indicates they'll likely grow out of they/them nonsense one day.

Literally trying to teach an English teacher English. The nerve of them but they are in a cult so they think everyone else is wrong.

Cult. Of. Youth.

Among all the other things the trans movement can be reasonably charged with, it is also a cult of youth in which young people are assumed to know the True Way of Things and must reeducate the oldies who have forgotten, or more likely, were never enlightened in the first place.

I hope someone replies explaining to this kid that while yes they can be used in the singular in English that is only correct if we don’t know the sex of the person. The teacher is correct in that they is improper in this instance. All this confusion about they makes me wonder what is happening to education requirements to take a second language. Once you learn a language like French where even they is “gendered” it becomes quite clear how ridiculous using they to erase sex is.

[–] SecondSkin 16 points Edited

They is correct if we don’t know the sex of the person and it is colloquial language.

Formal language unisex or unknown sex should be she/he or he/she.

One and only grammar rule I managed to pick up during my honours MA in English Literature because every single professor battered it into all of us by hauling us up in front of the class for lazy language every time we used they to mean the gender neutral reader.

They in formal writing detracts from meaning very quickly. Try reading (or writing) a novel/essay/play or whatever, with a group scene using both they for plural and they for the unisex character/person. Meaning disappears almost instantly.

I am no grammar pedant but this bugs the fucking hell out of me, because kids will write as they speak. Communication should not be turned into nonsense.

Try reading (or writing) a novel/essay/play or whatever, with a group scene using both they for plural and they for the unisex character/person. Meaning disappears almost instantly.

It makes it almost completely unreadable. As soon as there's more than one person in the scene, it gets you into this "Huh? Who are we talking about now? The enby or both of them?" situation incredibly quickly. That might be the saving grace of literature: that serious authors realize it's more important to put out work that makes sense than including virtue-signalling nonsense.

[–] Ave_Lucifuge 8 points Edited

This always tickles me. Someone on reddit always throws out examples like, "I talked to the manager, and they said they'd reimburse me!" They never pause a second to deconstruct the sentence and realize "they" is used because it's referencing the company as a whole/speaking on behalf of a group of people (or it's an unknown, like you are pointing out).

Everything, EVERYTHING about the gender movement is so superficial and basic, and THEY be acting like they uncovered some secret wisdom from long ago, when really it's just a bunch of kids and stunted adults making shit up as they go along.

Edit: nvm, looks like a few ladies down below beat me to the punch 😂 I do love a good grammer beatdown, though.

OP is apparently German, so s/he is already presumably working with a language that has a built-in masculine/feminine structure.

[–] Yemaya 19 points Edited

They/them for a singular person will never catch on. And when they claim that we already do it, no not really. We might say “they” when someone’s sex is unknown meaning that it could be EITHER a male or female, a he or a she.

Using “they” for someone who is known is confusing as hell and my brain always goes to someone talking about multiple people.

If it confuses native English speakers imagine how it is for people learning the language. FFS.

[–] a-witch-a-broad 12 points Edited

The well-meaning advice of "just imagine your enby friend has a mouse in their pocket and you're talking about both of them!" comes irresistibly to mind.

No way, was that said seriously?

It probably is helpful advice lol. What about imagining them as Sméagol/Gollum?

Great teacher. The singular "they" is a confusing abomination that needs to be rejected.

A pronoun and its antecedent must agree. They should both be singular or both be plural.

You know, I actually respect this student. They're not screaming about feelings; they're writing a rebuttal using sources and taking care not to seem hostile. I absolutely loved students like this when I was teaching, even if they were wrong. They're learning how to defend their ideas academically. I always wanted my students to know it was okay to challenge their teachers as long as they were polite. That's how you actually learn something, not just by deferring to your teachers because they must know best.

[–] FlorenceBlue Lvl5 Laser Lotus 11 points

These people are always so solipsistic that they think their reality and understanding of history is the only one that exists and the rest of us are NPC's.

I know they doesn't work in this context but the singular they IS a thing, when you don't know the sex of who you're speaking about or it's a generic singular person. They left their coat here, the parent must guide their child, etc. Bit of a pet peeve when people act like the singular they is so ridiculous when we use it every day.

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