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My pet theory is actually that men as a whole are actually bad at sexing people correctly and get fooled easily because each time the topic of trans people came up IRL, men found basically all trans dudes who shaved, wore make-up and feminine clothing passing. They were also really panicked and disgusted at the idea of "accidentally" sleeping with them. I once told a group of men discussing this at work that it could never happen, because they would notice it AT LEAST when they were in bed, they all assured me that nowadays you couldn't tell the difference. (off topic, but it's also a stunning example of mansplaining, as I told them I had seen many photos of the procedure and the end result did NOT look like female genitalia, and they maintained that, even though they'd never seen them themselves, they just knew that it could be done convincingly)

This, imo, explains why so many TiMs are convinced that they pass. To them too, make-up, shaving, and feminine clothing = female. The women in their life see this and know that they want to be called women, so they do it out of politeness - or out of fear they'll be fired. And thus the TiM cry: "everyone treats me as a woman !!!"

[–] hmimperialtortie 🐈🐈🐈🐈🐈 13 points

It’s all the more weird when men are so ready to dismiss women for not being their perfect fantasy figure, yet ... can’t apparently tell when they’re looking at a man in a dress? Are they thinking only of the Blaire White types rather than the usual Yanivesque horrorshows?

That's probably a part of it. Maybe women who work in tech or other TiM-heavy environments have a different experience than me. But I'm working-class and we don't see many trans people IRL (and all those I've seen were teenagers, unfortunately), so when people hear "trans women" they immediately think of celebrities. But to be honest, even most trans celebrities aren't passing: Elliot Page, Caitlyn Jenner... So I'm not sure who exactly they're thinking of when they insist you can't tell the difference. Photoshopped porn accounts, maybe ?

My pet theory is actually that men as a whole are actually bad at sexing people correctly and get fooled easily because each time the topic of trans people came up IRL, men found basically all trans dudes who shaved, wore make-up and feminine clothing passing.

I have seen this in action quite a few times. My own father saw a Tim on TV, who doesn't look anything like a woman (some Tim got his own show on our national broadcast channel) and yeah, basically he just wears quirky mismatched clothes, is a giant man with a massive brow bone and my dad was like "look, this looks like a funny show, she seems funny…" and I was like "Hol' up."

So after that I told him that's a whole ass man, was kinda baffled he couldn't tell (even though I know men suck at this). Every time the ad for that show came up that evening I pointed out his extremely male features (not that my dad didn't believe me, but just wanted him to see how I could tell). There was even an ad where the man is sitting in the car with his mom and he looks comically huge and male next to her. You know, huge skull, huge hands, all that. My dad conceded that it was obvious this was a man (voice gave it away also), and that he just wasn't paying attention. He said "I thought it was just a woman who was, you know, very… unfortunate-looking." I suspect if he had actually watched the show he would have clocked this dude, but even in a 3 second clip it was obviously a male to me. Anyway, it led to a discussion between the two of us about how females, babies, children and animals can all instinctively clock men as a matter of basic survival instinct, but men don't need this instinct so collectively are really bad at being able to tell the difference between men and women. It was a fun chat. Pretty sure neither of us will be watching that show.

[–] DoomedSibyl 5 points Edited

I have a TiF neighbor. She has the usual weird beard that comes from taking exogenous testosterone and wears male/gender neutral clothing. But those are the only things that even remotely might contribute to her passing as a man. In other attributes she has a pretty face (even with the beard), a voice oddly neither male nor female and the unmistakeable female pelvis. Even in baggy, ugly man jeans. She also weighs less than a hundred and twenty. When chatting with another neighbor after a recent windstorm that blew trees down, I accidentally outed her to a male neighbor. He was shocked that the TiF wasn’t an actual male. Insert my perplexed face because I thought this was as obvious as the sky above our heads. Seems neighbor number two had been treating neighbor number one as if she were an actual male. Whoopsie for me. I meant no harm and to my surprise, I like this person. But no kidding I thought the fact that she was trans was beyond obvious. At best she could pass as a teenage boy. At best. So more anecdata that men may have difficulty sexing people correctly. Perhaps that is one of the many reasons they force women to wear the femininity costume. So they make double sure that we’re actually female.

Very interesting, I wonder if he's gone on to treat her very differently since then (either because she's trans-ID-ing or because she's female, or likely both.

Perhaps that is one of the many reasons they force women to wear the femininity costume. So they make double sure that we’re actually female.

Yeah, that would make sense. They wouldn't want to accidentally harass one of the "bros", would they? Or accidentally treat a woman like a human being (like your neighbour probably was treating your Tif neighbour).

my pet theory is actually that men as a whole are actually bad at sexing people correctly and get fooled easily

That became my theory too after my boyfriend fall for a very obvious male in disguise in a movie. "Darling, that's not a woman" "Wha- really?!"