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In response to feedback from users of the circle, we have decided to adopt a low-to-zero tolerance policy for carnist excuses and derailment. We've heard you all that you want a fully vegan space where you don't have to deal with that stuff.

In an effort to engage both vegans and non-vegans, and to provide education to dispel common anti-vegan rhetoric, we've decided to have a weekly Debate Thread.

This week we've decided to talk about so called "ethical meat." This is one of the most common non-vegan arguments I hear: that somewhere-over-the-rainbow exists your second uncle's magical "humane" farm where animals totally live out their full lives, without their babies being taken away, and they're slaughtered nice and kindly with a boop on the nose.

Conveniently, no one can answer logistical questions about how these nice lil old mcdonald farms can exist, while also meeting the massive demand for cheap meat. No one can tell me how these "humane farmers" will get milk from cows without removing the calves from the mother. No one can tell me why its morally justifiable when we don't need to eat meat.

*In response to feedback from users of the circle, we have decided to adopt a low-to-zero tolerance policy for carnist excuses and derailment. We've heard you all that you want a fully vegan space where you don't have to deal with that stuff.* *In an effort to engage both vegans and non-vegans, and to provide education to dispel common anti-vegan rhetoric, we've decided to have a weekly Debate Thread.* This week we've decided to talk about so called "ethical meat." This is one of the most common non-vegan arguments I hear: that somewhere-over-the-rainbow exists your second uncle's magical "humane" farm where animals totally live out their full lives, without their babies being taken away, and they're slaughtered nice and kindly with a boop on the nose. Conveniently, no one can answer logistical questions about how these nice lil old mcdonald farms can exist, while also meeting the massive demand for cheap meat. No one can tell me how these "humane farmers" will get milk from cows without removing the calves from the mother. No one can tell me why its morally justifiable when we don't need to eat meat.

8 comments

[–] SulphuricMirror 4 points (+4|-0)

I haven't been to this circle in a few days but yay I'm so glad my suggestion was taken! I will be sure to post here more often now. :)

And yeah, it is impossible for "humane/ethical" meat to exist at all in my opinion (even to meet a small demand), but certainly it is physically impossible to meet the existing (and growing, in fact) demand for meat. Meat and feminine protein products are already subsidized by the government. People who eat/drink these things are, in a sense, on a welfare diet. If they're getting their meat from the mythical "uncle's farm", then they may think that the are exempt from this, but the truth is that even smaller farmers can take advantage of some programs like that, and even when they can't, it leaves the question: "what is the true cost of meat?" Take away all the subsidies, and that includes subsidies for corn and soy which are fed to these animals, and how much does a cheeseburger really cost? Who would be able to afford it, and would it be okay that only a small percentage of the world's population (compared to now) could continue to eat meat? And what about quantity? Basically, meat consumption demographics would be not unlike they were pre-industrialization. Meat for the rich (and gout for good measure), staples and plants for the poor.