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I miss the days when "Republican" meant William F. Buckley or George Will, not whatever this horseshit is.

Why do they keep calling the Proud Boys White Supremecists when they are composed of many races? You can be a fascist Western chauvinist without being a White supremecist…

This is a good article, entitled “What do Proud Boys stand for? 'Western chauvinism' explained” and you can find many online, including their manifesto.

When the group formed in 2016, it initially sought to distance itself from white nationalism. Proud Boys members have described themselves as ‘Western chauvinists’ or ‘Western culturalists’.

A key theme for members is to suggest they should be allowed to say whatever they want, including racist comments and threats of violence. Critics say free speech then becomes not only a means to express and offend, but also to harass, persecute and threaten.

What is ‘Western chauvinism’?

Proud Boys leader Gavin McInnes uses the term interchangeably with ‘Western culturalism’. Chauvinism is used as a way to mock ideas of equality and to ‘other’ the group they want to exclude.

The phrase is also used to emphasise a certain view of masculinity. The group opposes multiculturalism and views those from differing cultures and religions, especially Muslims and Jews, as enemies and targets of hate.

Where the Proud Boys’ ideas come from

The Proud Boys’ ideas have drawn on those put forward by ‘identitarian’ groups that have emerged in Europe in recent years. The Southern Poverty Law Centre identifies identitarians as seeing Europe to be “under siege by immigration, ‘Islamisation’ and white demographic decline”.

The groups use a strategy that, rather than denigrating people of colour, focuses on “raising white racial consciousness, building community based on shared racial identity and intellectualising white supremacist ideology”. This involves creating an identity which excludes those who are not white. Proud Boys has said it isn’t racist or part of the ‘Alt-Right’. However, the group expresses many views associated with this, promoting a whites-only society, with members advocating the use of violence.

The roots of ‘Western culturalism’ put forward by Proud Boys and its members are unsettling. McInnes speaks of a “cultural war” and encourages members to believe they are victims of racial and gender equality, for which violence and intimidation is advocated as a means of gaining attention.

Conspiracy theories form part of its focus, and the group opposes non-white immigration and inter-racial relationships, and advocates ‘stay-at-home’ roles for women.

How extreme are Proud Boys?

The group were designated as “an extremist group with ties to white nationalism” by the FBI in 2018.

The Proud Boys had initially sought to distance themselves from white nationalism when the group formed in 2016, stating they welcomed all races as members. However, racial and religious hostility soon became one of the group’s defining features.

The Proud Boys haven’t gone as far as some extremist groups, but there have been accusations of planning and carrying out serious acts of violence.

A 2017 video captured Indiana-based member Brien James shouting: “Black lives don’t matter”. McInnes himself has expressed intolerance towards black people, Puerto Ricans, Muslims and Jews. McInnes also advocates a patriarchal society. He has said: “Maybe the reason I’m sexist is because women are dumb.”

He has written: “Through trial and error, I learned that women want to be downright abused.”

These type of comments have attracted people from extreme far-right groups, with views commonly expressed and repeated on the internet by members.

Do they really want a white only society though? I thought the founders weren’t white? Did they get hijacked?

[–] Mikkal 0 points Edited

The "Boy Cried Wolf" story applies here, any Nationalist movement of any kind is now called "White Supremacist" regardless of the race of the people involved.

I noticed they mentioned Brown Shirt in the article, that's not a term I am familiar with, so I looked it up: Brown Shirt: "A uniformed member of the German Nazi Party (NSDAP), especially a storm trooper of the Sturmabteilung."

I honestly have no idea how much of this article to trust - they've already gone straight to the "Nazi" route, how much of the rest of it can I trust? I really object to just calling every "Nazi" and "White Supremacist" when it's not a good description of what motivates the group.

There is one WS group that formed in prison, specifically because in prison the gangs run down racial lines. They aren't white supremacists in the sense they want to change the world, they just use it as a tool to recruit into their prison gang and to set them selves apart from Hispanic and black prison gangs. Loyally to the gang is what actually matters to them, they weren't really Nationalists, they were a gang. Gang first, throw around a lot of Nazi-like language/symbols, but primarily a prison gang and aren't looking to do anything other than commit crime, not take over the government. No one looks at this group and admires them - they are a menace to everyone - which keeps people from having an exit to leave the gang. It locks them into place.

That's completely different from the KKK - the second wave of KKK was active in the North, like Detroit, and targeted both Catholics (like Irish Catholics), Jewish People, and African Americans as being "Non-American" and people that were unwanted in "their country" - so they were Nationalist and White Supremacists, and their criminal activity was mostly about terrorizing other people, but they were full of people of "oustanding character" in the community. It's a completely different groups. They had support of government officials and police.

Labeling every group as "White Supremacist, Nazi, Fascist" is a dehumanizing tactic. I don't feel I know much about the Proud Boys because everything is so over the top in covering them, it's hard to know whats real or not about them.

Did more reading - the FBI considers them an "extremist group" and I think that's completely fair. This was interesting too, it's a first hand account from a film maker following them during the Jan 6 riots, so it feels like it's a more fair portrayal of the group:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/filmmaker-followed-proud-boys-capitol-siege-wants-jan-6-committee-find-rcna32641

Traditional Racists would not want Enrique Tarrio in their group. But more modern groups based on an idea of a post-melting pot-Nationalism would be fine including him, and I feel that's a more accurate description of the Proud Boys?

This pudding is totally over-egged. The left likes to throw around the word fascist like confetti. (NB, consider myself a socialist ex-feminist, and don't think it helps to 'far-right' the right like they 'far-left' the left.)

[–] GCRadFem [OP] 4 points Edited

Definition of fascism, Merriam-Webster:

  1. A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

  2. A tendency or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

Edit: autocorrect correction