Discussion What are your thoughts on not letting your kids wear gender non-conforming clothing to protect them from bullies?

I think children should be allowed to wear what they want, as long as it's age appropriate. Sexualized clothing is obviously off the table. Most kids are adaptable and will wear what they're told, but some aren't. Highly GNC children are distressed by being made to wear clothing associated with their biological sex. I believe it's abusive to force them. I doubt I would have made it to adulthood if that had been done to me.

I tried the BILs way to escape the bullying. I was very gnc in school, bullied by my classmates and I really hoped that me being girly and nice to them would make them like me. Didnt work. Fuck them. My baby son was shame by other moms for wearing...purple, green with white dots; they asked me if he was gay...a BABY. Fuck them too. He looked adorable and babies dont have a sexuality. No matter how you do it, you do it wrong. Closed-minded people will always complain, for me, other peoples opinions dont matter anymore. I do what I want and this is what I teach my son. If he cant stand bullying later in life (which i hope wont happen...) and tries this route, I will support him. But this wont work, bullies will always bully, if the victim stops with what they dont like, they'll find something else.

I think it's up to the kids to decide. My friend's daughter, aged around 10, had a pair of scruffy shoes that she got teased for every day. The more she was teased, the more she was determined to wear those shoes and damn all her bullies' eyes. She wore those shoes to school every single day until they fell apart, and that was entirely her choice. She knew she had the strength to handle it. Anything less would have been compromising her integrity in a way she couldn't stomach. Kids who have the courage to do this should be allowed to do it. It sets the tone for their rest of their lives, as strong people who know their own boundaries and stand up for themselves, and who won't let themselves be cowed by bullying and intimidation or pander to the mob. This girl has been very successful in life. Any kid who sets off to school in GNC clothing is well aware that they're going to get hassled for it. If they choose to wear those clothes, it's because they feel ready to do battle. That willingness to fight prejudice and bigotry should never be undermined.

The gender identity industry and the whole ideology relies on people with opinions like your BIL. Without them “trans” kids, puberty blockers, sci fi levels of mutilation of children could not happen.

Your books sound great.

Nothing wrong with gently explaining to children how their peers might react, informing them that you support them either way and letting them decide what they want to do. Even young children are capable of having this discussion.

I think adults are often quick to assume that kids will care about certain things, but those kids are generally getting their cues from the adults. The idea that you get bullied for looking different in any way doesn't match with what I witnessed at school. Ime 'do things that might get them bullied' is more likely to be to do with behaviours (and isolation) than appearance. Some kids will make mean comments or hassle you if you look different in any way, but it's not the same as a sustained, targeted bullying campaign from your peers.

I also wonder where you're meant to end with this logic. Seems like a short step to 'kids tease other kids if they don't have straight hair; I will put lye on my daughter's hair' or 'kids tease kids with big noses; I will buy my kid a nosejob'.

Anyway, if women worked according to these principles, we wouldn't have feminism. He wants to teach those kids 'keep your head down, conform, and try to be invisible'. For those of us here, that's obviously not going to get us far.

Bullying is complex. A socially popular boy can get away with wearing girly clothes and still remain popular. A boy with less good social skills will probably get bullied.

I can see where he's coming from, being bullied is really detrimental to a child's (and consequently adults) mental health, especially if it's ongoing. That being said, I think it can depend on the child, the peers, and the school. Some kids might be ok being briefly made fun of, especially they have good friends and a good school. Others won't be so resilient, and that's when the parent should step in and explain what might happen if he decides to go so radically against the grain.

I don't think there's really a clear answer. I don't know if this is a feminist perspective, but it's mine as a parent and feminist.

Even if they are worried about the child being made fun of, that's not really a reason to make the wife return the clothes. They could just not wear the clothes to school and wear them at home or during holidays. That way the child at least still has a way to wear what they want to.

And concerning school I guess it depends on how feminine the clothing is. I understand being scared to send a child to school in something like a pink dress. But there could be a compromise. The gnc boy could wear clothes that are gender neutral instead of specifically masculine. That doesn't make them the target of mockery as much as feminine clothing but also might not make him as uncomfortable as stereotypical boy clothes. They could also let him have long hair if he wants. I think in this situation it might be important to both protect the child from being made fun of but also make the child feel like their needs and wants are being considered so outright banning everything that isn't stereotypically boyish is a bit too much in my opinion

I think it depends on the child, the school and what kind of clothes it is.

I would make a difference between what you wear for school (needs to be more professional, school appropriate) and free time.

Even if you don’t adhere to the above, I think that a very confident boy who is on the top sports teams can usually wear what he wants and have “girly” interests. DS (extremely sporty and quite popular) joined a club which was considered to be for girls. Now lots of boys want to join.

If the child is more introvert and shy, I would be slightly more careful with the more extravagantly different clothes around other children. Bullying is real. However, as others have pointed out, if a child is aware that they can get teased for something and determined to wear in anyway, they are probably ready to deal with it.

I can understand your BIL's desire to protect his kids. However, bullies are going to make fun of kids for even normal things.

Take the example of people who give their kids really unusual names. "I don't want to name my kid Pickle, she's going to get made fun of! I'll name her Ashley". Ashley is probably still going to have a bully make fun of her for something else.

Unfortunately I don't think there is any way to completely protect kids from bullies. Mean kids will find ways to hurt others.

Tell your BIL if he's worried about bullies, enroll his sons in self-defense martial arts or karate.

I think the age of the child/ren matters a lot. Middle school is where I saw the most bullying of boys going on. In pre-school and the lower grades, it's live and let live. Third grade is when bullying amongst boys becomes intense. By 8th grade and HS, being "gender non conforming" is cool again.

But kids pick up their attitudes on what kind of dress is acceptable from their parents. I raised kids in NYC in the 90s and early 2000s, where/when the attitudes were liberal/progressive and most of the parents were relaxed and didn't give a toss. It was before the new regressive genderism reared its ugly head.