25

18 comments

[–] BJ581 [OP] 22 points Edited

Archive link

I wish they had included all women rather than just mothers. It’s my experience, even without children, that women in high powered careers are still doing more housework than their husbands, even if they make more.

ETA: Also, it’s important to end any article where we remind women that it’s our fault:

“You have to voice your needs,” she said, adding with a laugh, “I’ve learned to be more compassionate in my delivery.”

People don't understand there's an inherent power imbalance in heterosexual couples. That does not mean heterosexuality is evil and no one should engage in it, but within the confines of the nuclear family where a woman is isolated with a man, yes it is inherently unequal, and money doesn't compensate for that power, or rather, strength difference. It is easy to coerce or exploit a woman if the threat of physical violence is present, which means that whenever a man is liable to experience a narcissistic injury (an unhealthy form of anger caused through triggering any of his insecurities), the woman is deprived of free will and full agency. If she earns the same or more than him and it offends him, she'll do more work. If she earns less than him and he feels exploited, she'll do more work. If she smiles and he feels she's making fun of him or having fun without him, she'll do more work. Etc. Etc.

Yes, that’s what jumped out at me. Silly women! Men won’t know what to do unless you tell them!

It’s so stupid. I don’t want to manage you, that’s more work. If you see the laundry needs to be done I shouldn’t need to ask or do it myself, those aren’t the only two options here. You live here, you could just do it.

[–] DoomedSibyl 12 points Edited

It’s weaponized incompetence. My now ex husband used to do this thing. I asked him for help in general and specific terms. At the time I was caring for sick parents in addition to everything else so my stress was off the charts. He would always say, just ask me to do something. But project managing whatever it was and asking for help didn’t remove any stress from me. Two examples.

I would get the kitchen garbage and recycling ready for take out. I would take out the full bags, reline the bins with new bags, police up any other garbage in the general area (bad stuff in the fridge etc) and empty any nearby wastebaskets to fill the bag. Then I would tie them up and head for the back door. About six steps from the back door my husband would appear and take the bags from me and carry them the final twenty steps. He would then remind me that he’d “helped”. During this little exercise I’d also noted whether we needed garbage bags, whether the fridge needed a full clean out and made mental notes.

Second example. During the first year of our marriage, my husband had two moderately severe health issues that required surgeries and significant recovery. More nursing and caregiving for me. There was also about $10K in unexpected medical bills. I made monthly payments. When I took a call one evening asking for payment I was incredibly stressed and tried to talk to my husband about his medical bills. I was upset. I knew he wouldn’t do anything constructive by that point but I wanted an “it will be all right. Don’t worry.” Instead he turned on his heel and went to the yard. When I followed him asking what his problem was, he told me that “he wasn’t going to do anything about it so why should he talk about it.”

Our marriage was short lived and I think if I hadn’t been so underwater with my mom’s dementia I wouldn’t have fallen prey. Writing this I’m surprised I didn’t poison his food.

My point vis a vis the opening article is that “asking for help” doesn’t always work and doesn’t always result in help that is useful. Guys often won’t do the project management aspects of actually noticing something needs to be done or do all of the related tasks that actually complete the job. They won’t put fresh bags in the cans, or restock paper towels, or wipe the counters after doing the dishes, or put away the dishes in the drainer before piling new ones on. I’m sure many women could add things and I’d observed this kind of behavior in other men long before I experienced it.

Weaponized incompetence.

Oh and did anyone else notice the sexism of moms versus husbands and how it made the greater earning, more chore doing woman and wife seem of lesser status?

If you tell them it means they still perceive that it's your job to do it and they're only helping you, doing you a favor, and now you owe them something, probably sex. Just for cleaning after themselves and not living like pigs.

This is why I dropped the “hey can you do me a favor and take the trash out?” In my last relationship. It’s not a favor, it’s not “helping” me, it’s an expected part of adult life and living in a house. When I was a kid that was the rule my mom had. You don’t get paid for the basic household chores you’re assigned, because I don’t get paid for them either, that’s just part of living in a house. I’m happy to pay you if you want to go plant that garden, or lay down lawn seed, but I don’t pay you for laundry and dishes, that’s just life.

[–] alpinepunch 2 points Edited

Based on how a lot of 20-25 year old single men live, I think part of the reason this happens is because they're comfortable living under like hoarder-tier circumstances while most women are socialized to be relatively clean. When they live together, women basically have to decide whether they want to take on excessive amounts of house-work to maintain their standard of living or whether they want to get comfortable living like a frat boy, and often they bite the bullet and go with the former route.

I'm a very, very dirty person. I'm not sure why I'm like this, but I grew up around what a lot of white people would probably consider hoarders so I assume that has something to do with it. My male ex eventually dumped me (for a variety of reasons, but the main one he mentioned was that I made him feel stupid and a cursory one was that the house was so messy). which made me speculate that it isn't merely a matter of men having lower standards for cleanliness (because I also have those standards) but instead that they expect women to be the ones with higher standards and then rely on weaponized incompetence to subtly coerce them into doing more housework. I'd wager professionally successful women are the most likely to have high standards for themselves, and so are relatively more prone to being manipulated in this way. I think if voluntary celibacy was normalized, these women could hold out for partners who match their high standards instead of pairing up with losers and trying to drag them to their level.

Agree with everything you said. It’s a really interesting point too about the double standard. I’m very neat, I won’t let my house get messy. I just can’t. It makes me crazy, but I have tolerated men who were not neat. I think you’re right that it’s unlikely men would tolerate the same from women.

Why have the husband at all? If you out-earn him by that much you clearly don't need him for anything. Men and women are not equal partners and aren't good at the same tasks. Sorry if that offends some leftists but I gotta call it like I see it. If you are good at what a man does, don't have the man. He will just weigh you down.

I am pretty sure that Germaine Greer has a similar take in The Whole Woman, I believe she calls husbands “an expensive luxury.” Haha

Because there is still stigma against single mothers, I'm guessing. Married women look more respectable in a patriarchy.

Screw that! You don’t need to care what anybody thinks as long as you can take care of yourself.

I agree, but that's my best guess why a high earning woman would marry.