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66 comments

[–] DarthVelma 67 points Edited

Here's a thought, if the Russian government is so fucking worried about declining population, maybe they should consider not throwing their young people into war for no fucking reason.

And I'm really fucking tired of hearing about the population collapse. It's bullshit. This is women gaining control of their own lives and fertility and correcting the over-population caused by men's inability to keep their dicks in their pants and their complete lack of concern for the health and well-being of the mothers of their children.

They are literally missing millions of males across multiple generations because the population (of males) never recovered from the losses of the world wars (and the subsequent generational alcoholism used to cope). It's insane that they will keep sending men to war, and then complain that there aren't enough kids. Pick one.

They aren't worried about declining population. Or family values. They desperately need more and more soldiers. And they need women for these soliders to abuse and when they are not soildering.

Here's a thought, if the Russian government is so fucking worried about declining population, maybe they should consider not throwing their young people into war for no fucking reason.

Yeah, maybe don't send your young population off to die...

But maintaining the population is important if we are to let people retire in old age and get healthcare or even just live. Without enough working people and with too many old people the system can collapse and elderly poverty might become widespread

I vehemently disagree that the needs of the elderly or anyone else justify increasing the fertility/birth rate because stating otherwise is tacitly agreeing with the misogynist sexist argument that women are defined by motherhood, are obligated to give birth and therefore do not deserve bodily autonomy or the freedom to live their life as they choose.

Those same women will be elderly one day, too. And they're the ones in danger, not the current elderly population. A low fertility rate is a ticking timebomb unless working age immigrants come in to produce the goods and services necessary to keep society running. We can acknowledge this problem while not forcing women to give birth.

Well, maybe the powers that be can make parenthood more feasible and not make life a very unpleasant obstacle course. Otherwise, they can stfu.

Yeah, but such policies only have a limited effect unfortunately. No country has successfully achieved replacement level fertility

[–] DarthVelma 18 points Edited

At least in the US, this is all about the Baby Boomers. They still hold so many positions of power so of course they're pushing this population collapse narrative. They need young bodies to fight their wars and wipe their asses. Once we get past the Baby Boomers then this problem will decrease substantially, if not disappear entirely. The solution is not to forcibly breed another over-sized generation to take care of them. That just kicks the can down the road and we never actually solve the problem.

And honestly, forcing women to have babies they don't want right now actually exacerbates the problem. Who do they think is mostly taking care of the elderly now, either for free as family or as paid caretakers?

And honestly, forcing women to have babies they don't want right now actually exacerbates the problem. Who do they think is mostly taking care of the elderly now, either for free as family or as paid caretakers?

I’m so sorry I can’t stop picturing this…

Woman: I need an abortion but live in a state where it’s illegal

Conservative Boomers: Don’t get pregnant 🤷‍♂️

But then…

Conservative Boomers: wipe my ass, I’m too old to do it myself

Women: Don’t get old 🤷🏽‍♀️

But honestly I was a paid caregiver when I was about 17/18, and all I can say is the elderly of today DEFINITELY should not have ANY expectations when it comes to how they’ll be taken care of when they no longer can care for themselves.

I think another issue is that Boomers are one of the first generations to live far longer and more comfortable lives than their parents. When social security was started, most people were lucky if they lived past 70. Now people routinely live into their 80s because diseases that were a death sentence just 50 years ago can be managed.

We also have the issue of bad economic policies & the expectation to get a pricey college degree destroying the ability of millennials to be upwardly mobile. A few generations ago, a person could get a decent job out of high school and be able to live a middle class life on one income. That is no longer possible for most people. And why the fuck would anyone want kids when they & their partner are both working long hours and can barely afford a one bedroom apartment in a shit neighborhood?

That's the situation I'm in now. I really wanted at least 2 kids. But the housing market has squeezed us out. And I don't want to have a second when I'm still living in a crackerbox apartment

[–] [Deleted] 4 points Edited

This is a weird take that doesn't apply to most countries. My country does not have oversized generations and if the fertility rate does not rise, the health care system will collapse and the economic consequences will be pretty serious.

And people can talk about immigration all they want, but if my country, and many others in Europe, were to start allowing mass immigration from developing nations (the ones with actual overpopulation), far right parties would see a massive rise in support. The momentum they gained during the 2015 refugee crisis was already insane and my country specifically did not even take in that many people. You can see this effect (rise in support for far-right parties who have either already introduced, or promise to introduce if elected, tight restrictions on refugees and immigrants) in countries such as Denmark and France already even though both nations face huge problems because of low fertility rates.

And this shouldn't have to be said but obviously I don't support forcing women to have children, I'm just saying that low fertility rates are a problem for many countries.

Once we get past the Baby Boomers then this problem will decrease substantially, if not disappear entirely.

How? The fertility rates are below replacement. When the generation that is currently in their 30s and 40s gets old there won't be enough people of working age to pay for their pensions/social security, healthcare and just general consumption. Also, this is a problem for every country with low fertility rates, including Russia, not sure why you're talking about the US only.

And honestly, forcing women to have babies they don't want

Obviously we shouldn't do that and that's against women's rights. And the dictator's "measures" won't help Russia either. Doesn't mean it's not a problem worth solving. Wealthy countries could solve it temporarily with immigration - this way you could always have a fresh influx of working age people to work and pay taxes. But this won't work for countries like Russia because who wants to move to Russia? And it's not like immigrants will be welcome either

I'm getting a distinct feeling that men are somewhat united as a class about this on a global perspective. Apparently men around the world agree that women should be getting impregnated and have babies whether they want to or not. it's a really savage/animalistic thing to care about and it's really creepy.

I'm getting a distinct feeling that men are somewhat united as a class about this on a global perspective.

I've had this feeling too. From Korea's "walking wombs", to the constant "why aren't young people having kids???", to Roe being overturned and Poland getting stricter. It has felt for a few years like the whole planet has been shifting towards an informal program of "forcing births" because males are freaked out that women aren't having as many kids as they would historically have forced us to have.

Hilarious. Women don't consider a child free lifestyle because of something they read in the paper, they consider a child free lifestyle after witnessing their own mother's lives.

Men will go to almost any lengths rather than become the kind of people women might actually want to raise a family with.

It is amazing how much men are pushing back at the collapsing birth rates. It's not at all surprising that they seek to enslave women instead of solving the social, economic, and environmental causes for the lack of desire to have children.

The amount of LiveLeak videos I've seen of Russian women getting beaten, had bottles smashed on their heads, locked outside in the snow, etc and they wonder why Russian women don't want to have kids? 🤨

Civilization was built with far fewer people than there are today. And we have terrifying robots on the way.

China has screwed itself with its one child policy, for sure. But a huge part of that is the gender imbalance.

Romania screwed itself over with Ceaucescu's attempt to increase the population. It resulted in the orphan crisis. 30 years on, they're still suffering the fall out. Political instability, crime, poverty, despair, trauma from families that got torn apart, many adults with cognitive delays from infant neglect.

It's simply a bad idea to try to thumb the scales in terms of population growth. If you leave it up to the people, most want about 2 or 3 kids. Some won't have any, others will have more. In times of plenty, and with support, a lot of people will have 3 or 4 children. That's the natural replacement rate.

I'm not libertarian about many things, but boy is this ever one of them. Government should always leave this issue alone. If they think it's dropping, create supports for mothers so that they won't be financially wrecked by having another baby. Not prizes or treats. That shit doesn't help. Just supports.

7 billion is too many and a system that requires infinite growth is not sustainable, officials cope harder :)

True. And if they try to force it to grow larger, all that's going to happen is that the populace will be decimated by disease and war instead. I very much prefer the more pleasant, humane way of simply not having as many children.

reading this after I read this yesterday make me think there is state-sponsored human trafficking happening to meet Putin's objectives. Fucking hell this is chilling.

Extract from link above

Following months of speculation, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken confirmed on July 13, 2022, that Russia had forcibly relocated between 900,000 to 1.6 million Ukrainians into Russia.

Approximately 260,000 of these Ukrainian deportees are children, including orphans and others separated from their parents.

Russia has established at least 18 filtration camps, where they take Ukrainian deportees’ biometric data, which are unique, physical characteristics, like fingerprints.

These camps serve to filter out people Russia deems dangerous, including members of the Ukrainian military, government and media. Those identified as suspect are often harassed, abused and even tortured.

No mention of what they are doing to young women in these camps

Ukrainians have reportedly disappeared following their entry to the camps.

Eyewitnesses say that those deported from Russia also face harsh conditions and have little choice about where they go.

There are also reports that some of the Ukrainian children have been placed for adoption in Russia.

Yes, it's been clear for a while that Russia is kidnapping and trafficking (aka, enslaving) Ukranians. The horror I feel over their fates is indescribable.

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