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What really bothers me about this case and how extensively it is spoken about is how, rather than tearing down the horrific family annihilator, people criticise his murdered wife Shannan or his mistress Nichol so much more. Even his mom gets picked at.

Shannan: The hate this woman gets is insane.. She was the victim. Her husband cheated and then murdered her AND her two babies.. They hate on her for being part of an MLM, they pseudo diagnose her with narcissistic disorder or say she was abusing him or had BPD. They call her an attention-wh*re because she liked to post on social media and say that made him "snap". Theres hundreds of youtube videos analysing her behaviour to call her abusive. I've read countless opinions about how "if the roles were reversed it would be fine to analyse the female killers motivations" but it WASNT. Family annihilators are predominantly men for a reason.

Nichol: People legitimately believe she was involved in black magic and made him (poor sweet quiet chris) do it or gave him an ultimatum to. They insult and belittle a woman who was being lied to about him "getting divorced" yes cheating sucks but the amount of vitriol she got landed her in witness protection.

His Mom: They say his mom was a narcissistic parent who is responsible for what he did.

Like FFS why is society so resistant to calling out men for what they do because theyre bad people. Why is it always a woman's fault?

What really bothers me about this case and how extensively it is spoken about is how, rather than tearing down the horrific family annihilator, people criticise his murdered wife Shannan or his mistress Nichol so much more. Even his mom gets picked at. Shannan: The hate this woman gets is insane.. She was the victim. Her husband cheated and then murdered her AND her two babies.. They hate on her for being part of an MLM, they pseudo diagnose her with narcissistic disorder or say she was abusing him or had BPD. They call her an attention-wh*re because she liked to post on social media and say that made him "snap". Theres hundreds of youtube videos analysing her behaviour to call her abusive. I've read countless opinions about how "if the roles were reversed it would be fine to analyse the female killers motivations" but it WASNT. Family annihilators are predominantly men for a reason. Nichol: People legitimately believe she was involved in black magic and made him (poor sweet quiet chris) do it or gave him an ultimatum to. They insult and belittle a woman who was being lied to about him "getting divorced" yes cheating sucks but the amount of vitriol she got landed her in witness protection. His Mom: They say his mom was a narcissistic parent who is responsible for what he did. Like FFS why is society so resistant to calling out men for what they do because theyre bad people. Why is it always a woman's fault?

31 comments

It seems to me that the modern pattern for analyzing crimes committed by males against females (with the sole exception of pure Madonnas,) is to try to find reasons the man is not really responsible, and to try to find ways the woman deserved what was coming to her.

Why did that man hit that woman? Well, he’s probably autistic (neurotypival people say.) or he’s mentally ill. Look at him, he’s [race]/[ethnicity]/[sexuality]/[gender identity,] he must live as a ball of stress, putting up with all that discrimination from b——-es like the one he’s punching right now. Can you blame him for snapping?

Her? Dude, I’ve seen women receive absolute public beatdowns which are justified by the viewers with “She was probably being rude.” If a man says a woman was rude, homophobic, racist, etc. to him and that’s why he attacked her, it’s viewed as true, no questions asked. A woman who says she was being followed, being harassed, or had someone be rude to her is assumed to be a gigantic baby who needs to get over it (“not everyone is out to rape you, jeez, he was probably just trying to be nice”,) making it up for attention, or to get out of the rudeness/homophobia/racism/etc. she was doubtlessly just delivering.

Isn’t that kind of funny? Suppose we have a video that consists only of a woman crying and begging to be left alone. Let’s say it’s an Asian woman. And let’s say the person filming is a black male. He says she called him slurs, she keeps saying she didn’t. I can see that in that case, the man’s word would be taken without question: she was being racist and he’s just calling her out on it, she’s lying when she says it didn’t happen and is just trying to fake tht he harassed her. She says he absolutely harassed her and is now making up that she called him names to get out of getting in trouble for being harassed (and is trying to get back ar her for not responding positively to harassment.) She’s assumed to be a racist Karen. He’s assumed to be a persecuted saint. Why?

Why do we, when presented with evidence that doesn’t prove either one is guilty one way or the other, we just assume that she is guilty and he is not?

Women are also not given the same benefit of the doubt even when they are the aggressors. People, most often handmaidens, will bend over backwards trying to “prove” that a man was mentally ill, neuroatypical, not getting the help hw needed, etc. when he attacked someone, but a woman has no such excuse. That b——-h should know better. Even if she had any or all of the excuses a man doing the same thing is given.

One thing I’ve noticed in “Karen” story comments is how much delight is taken in imagining the woman receiving shocking physical beatdowns. With a man doing the same thing, it’s usually focused on how h s going to get arrested and lose his job, and people take satisfaction in that. With a woman, there’s a much bloodier hope, that she gets her ugly ass beaten, that she gets dragged by a car or slammed into a door, that her head gets smashed against the pavement. People like violence against women, because a woman who is not quiet needs to be shut up, and is committing a much more serious crime than a man.

Its so gross how they go after a murdered woman who cannot defend herself. Some of the conspiracy theories about Shannan would be funny if not for the horrible nature of the crime (I saw some people claim that the vitamins she sold via her MLM damaged her husband's brain and thats what caused Chris' shitty behavior)

And the thing is, even if EVERY negative thing said about Shannan, Nicole, and Chris' mom was true; it still doesn't absolve him of his crime! If his wife was shitty, divorce was an option. If his mistress started making violent demands, he had the option of telling her to fuck off. Nobody is responsible for his behavior but him. And I'm sick of seeing these True Crime weirdos try to turn Chris Watts into a victim by slandering the women he screwed over.

I made the mistake of watching the documentary about this crime on Netflix. And I still can't get over Chris' confession that his oldest daughter realized what he was doing at the end and begged him to spare her. As a mother, I cannot fathom the level of evil it takes to strangle the life out of one's own child as she begs for mercy. The fact that this fucker still has defenders makes me sick. I hope he's miserable every day in jail

I remember seeing people blaming Gabby Petito for her own death. Poor young woman.

True crime gossipers almost always cover Aileen Wuornos, if they don’t go out of their way to understand her and show her compassion like they do with male killers I automatically know this uneducated idiot is full of shit

As a true crime watcher, Aileen is my litmus test as well. Also, how they speak about serial killers mothers. If she’s cast as the unrepentant Mrs. Bates evil witch wholly responsible for her son turning into what he is, I know the presenter is garbage. ESPECIALLY if they uncritically take the killer’s word for it when he had murdered his mother (ie Kemper). True crime communities absolutely eat up the Evil Mother trope.

What’s never discussed anywhere is that for most men who serially kill women, the motive is almost always SEXUAL. So many wasted hours racking their brains: is it his bad childhood? Mental illness? Why would someone do this?? Duh, it’s sexual, that’s it. They snuff women (and children) out for their orgasm. Whether the kill is part of the sexual thrill or just to keep the victim quiet, the root is sexual. There is no deeper meaning and I wish people would stop navel gazing about it. Millions of people deal with shitty abusive childhoods and mental illness and they don’t murder people.

I said most because if it’s not sexual, the cause is pathological misogyny. Women are things he owns and when he loses control of her, or he tires of her and the kids, he feels entitled to dispose of her like a tissue. OR the women-things are not appropriately worshiping to him (incel spree killers), so they have to die.

Sexual sadism specifically. They get off on the woman screaming in pain, the terror in her eyes and her begging for her life. A lot of them strangle their victims to the point of unconsciousness, then stop, revive her, and repeat, so they can experience killing her over and over again.

There are so many instances where people knew the guy was disturbed when he was a little kid, as young as toddler age. Ted Bundy's aunt said she laid down to take a nap and when she woke up she saw 3-year old staring at her and realized that he had placed every knife in the house on the bed all around her.

ugh, he actually smothered the children with a blanket. I'm not sure what's worse, being strangled or smothered. Evil piece of shit of a man.

This was the case that made me wary of "narcissistic personality disorder" because everyone on the internet seems to think their mother ordering them to clean their rooms has it. And it seems like women are 9/10 the ones being internet diagnosed with it. Which leads me to believe that NPD accusations are yet another tool men are using to silence women lest they be tarnished with an NPD or Karen label.

If Shannan was really that irritating, then he could have quite easily divorced her. The vast majority of people would be on his side as evidenced by the fact that he fucking killed two kids and he still has people caping for him. He obviously wasn't worried about her winning custody of the kids and not letting him see them because otherwise him murdering them wouldn't make any sense.

Chis wanted to still be seen as a good guy. He was worried that by dumping his wife and kids for someone younger, people might judge him as just another jerky dude. He was obviously hoping that if he could convince people that Shannan had left him or something bad had happened to her and the kids then he could move on with his younger girlfriend and people would be happy to see such a "great guy" find happiness again. Anyone who defends him is insane.

My father is a diagnosed narcissist. Half of the people who get called narcissists aren’t even close. They’re just selfish. Narcissism is so much more than selfishness. It’s delusions of grandeur, entitlement, an inability to empathize, the view that everyone is a pawn for you to push around, and—at least for my father—a sense of persecution and unfairness when they don’t get exactly what they want.

I really wish people would stop saying people have serious psychiatric disorders when what they actually mean is literally just “bad”.

This was such a horrible crime. I can almost understand a break from reality where a husband, who had been unfaithful and whose world of deception was about to crumble around him, has some sort of rage induced incident that results in the death of his wife. I can fathom it, but not in any way condone or forgive it. People lose it and crimes of 'passion' and 'breaks from reality' do occur which lead people into horrible choices.

What I cannot get my head around is the actions after that event. The absolute determination to then end the lives of his daughters - not in some blind rage or insanity where he then takes his own life - but in a slow and considered way where he commits crimes against his children and then attempts to hide his crimes.

I had thought our shared humanity would make us all blanch from hearing about such horror and we would all have a similar response - but no.

I would blame it on the current times we live in, but really, there is nothing new under the sun. Women have always been blamed, even for their own demise. Now we just get to read on social media what used to just jounce around in some people's mushy brains. Too bad the people that really deserve to be silenced never get cancelled.

I didn't know that this was going on but it doesn't surprise me. I remember this case very well as it's in my state. It was so horrific how he disposed of the bodies of his wife and two daughters. How can someone kill their wife and two little girls like that unless they are an evil monster? Nobody made him do it. She was pregnant too. The leading cause of death in pregnant woman is murder, making 20% of all deaths. He is evil, rotten to the core and nobody made this man do it.

This isn't to excuse these people at all, because they are contemptible, but I think that part of what's going on is a form of mental self-defence. The life of Shannon and Chris was, on the surface, entirely normal and aspirational. In the videos, Chris seems like a pretty quiet, non-abusive guy. It's almost incomprehensible that meek Chris would have an affair then murder his entire family. And if Chris could do it, then any man can. These murders threaten women's sense of security and safety.Rather than accept the truth that men can lead double lives, that men can and do kill their families with alarming regularity, the Shannon critics attempt to take back control by placing the blame in her.

Shannon had flaws that the critics don't have. They don't do MLMs. They aren't bossy to their husbands. They don't film their day to day lives and put them online. They are DIFFERENT from Shannon, who had some annoying traits, and so that means they are safe. Chris killed her and the kids not because he is a man, who could, but because Shannon had such a terrible personality she drove this entirely normal man to murder.

It HAS to be a woman's fault, because the alternative is too terrifying. The alternative is that men, even men who say they love you, men you share your life with, can and do just switch and murder without any warning. It has to be a woman's fault to bring some meaning and order back into the patriarchal universe.

And when this sort of thing comes out after a horrific crime like this, that the wife threatened to take the kids away…well, guess what? SHE WAS RIGHT! His crime proves her suspicions were correct. Every fucking time I see something like this where some monster murders a woman and/or their children, if she said no, or was going to leave…she was proved right. She was right to leave or say no or whatever she did to “provoke” him because he’s a murderous bastard.

[–] Medusa91 22 points Edited

(Edited to add: I haven’t kept up with the case in a while so a lot of this is from my memory)

Shannon and her babies did not deserve what happened to them. I can’t actually follow the case anymore after hearing about his third victim (either the youngest or oldest daughter) because before he killed her, after watching him murder her sister she cried out “daddy no” and he still strangled her. even writing that bought me to tears. It’s so horrific what he did the heartless <things that will get me banned from this site>

I do think there might be SOME validity to Nichole knowing more than she let on. I’m not sure she nesesserily knew he was going to murder his wife and daughters but there are some odd things surrounding her like that wierd text he sent her from the murder site. I think she likely just knew a bit more about his mental state and maybe wierd things he said than she let on - but im also not surprised her immediate reaction was to have some sort of loyalty/ protection towards him. Maybe the police just didn’t release everything to the public and that’s why there’s some conspiracy there. More than anything I just think she was a woman who naively fell for a married man, I imagine she was upset when she found out Shannon was pregnant and I don’t think it takes any explaining to understand why. I think she was far more likely to be waiting for the “official split” to happen.

I feel sorry for his mum, I can’t imagine what she’s going through and the conflict between loving your child unconditionally and also knowing that he murdered not only his pregnant wife but her two grand babies too.

I truely think he killed them of his own volition. I can’t remember the name of Shannon’s best friend off the top of my head but that woman was on a mission to find her friend. She knew something was up and she was about to become the one woman FBI to find out what happened. She spotted shit immedietly in that house, she called it out in front of the police and to chris’ face. The sheer determination and power she had was a force to be reckoned with. Her strength was so admirable

That friend was amazing. Such a great example of a true friend, knowing something was up and not dissuaded at all by Chris' bullshit.

yup that friend is the GOAT for sure. my girlfriend and I broke into cheers when they covered that on a documentary we watched. I loved that shit.

As for her threatening to take the kids; when fathers kill the kids to punish the mother, he does it before he kills the mother. In other cases where he kills the mother first it’s because he doesn’t want to be bothered with them. And even has some hatred towards them too.

This is another thing that gets me about abusive husbands.

There’s a belief that unless proven otherwise there is no reason to assume that a man who has abused his wife will abuse his children. There is an idea that such a man can be an abusive husband but a good father. If you harming their mother, you are harming them by default. But how many men only lose it regarding their wives, but children, who clearly are never frustrating to be around, would never face anything?

It makes no sense.

They literally are saying “He would never hurt a kid, just an adult woman” and accepting that as something that make sense.

[–] Tabitha_Tuesday 18 points Edited

With Shanann, the thing that pisses me off is that Chris Watts is a known liar and he said that she "threatened to divorce him and take his kids away" in an argument before he killed her, and people just believe it! It's very likely she never said anything like that and he just killed her. She can't defend herself now, and as someone that had a person close to me die in a crime and have untrue gossip spread about them without any ability to defend themselves, I'm very bitter about these things.

I think his parents are scum, though, because they don't believe he's guilty (how??), and I really dislike parents who believe their children can do no wrong. His mother also said they forgive him in court, which is so inappropriate! Shanann and her kids were brutally murdered by him, and his family is in court saying that they forgive him? That's absolutely not their place, or in my opinion, their right to do. I believe they have some serious narcissism themselves, and I'm sure they babied their precious little sociopath.

Even if he was telling the truth about her threatening to take the kids away, so the fuck what? A never ending amount of people make similar nonsense threats in the middle of huge bust ups with their partners, it’s a thing people lash out with in the heat of the moment plenty. Most people have zero intention on following through, most who do mean it either change their mind when calm and rational and reality sets in, or the family court system doesn’t allow it without valid reasons anyways (often they insist on contact when it’s clearly detrimental to the children, not the other way round).

There’s no way he would have believed that was a real threat even if she said it, it’s a meaningless nonsense point from him. He just didn’t want to have to pay child support and alimony, and deal with her at contact visits, or deal with the kids upset, for the rest of their lives. He wanted to get rid of the old toy and have all his time and money for playing with the new one. They were his possessions and he was done with them now. If Shannon had offered to go away to the other side of the world, accept no money (or give him a giant lump sum instead) and leave him the house, never contact him ever again or post on sm, and pretend she’d dropped off the face of the planet, he still would have killed her and the kids. From his pov his family were his property, and they lived when he said they could and died when he wanted them to. It’s the same as drowning a bag of kittens rather than hand them to a rescue or release them into the wild, it’s asserting that they are objects and he is god.

These types of men are all the same.

That's exactly what it was because it makes no sense that he would be so upset over her supposedly threatening to take his kids only to turn around and kill them..there are those cases of "if I cant have you/them, no one can" type of murder-suicides, but that doesn't apply here because those usually happen after the wife has moved on.

It's so obvious he just wanted them all out of his life so he could run off into the sunset with hot new girlfriend and start over with a clean slate without having to deal with all the things you listed.

If he was so concerned about her taking off with the kids, he would do what most crazy men do and take off with them and torment her through family courts.

and he said that she "threatened to divorce him and take his kids away" in an argument before he killed her, and people just believe it!

That's because it has become a beloved MRA talking point over the last years. "She's just going to take the kids away for no reason!!" I'm sure that Watts knew he would get automatic sympathy for that, at least from fellow men, because it's something they just love to believe too much to even question a little bit.

This has gotten to the point that now, whenever I read a man complain online (on reddit or the like) that his evil evil ex threatened to take the kids away / is keeping him from them, I automatically assume it's bullshit.

Seems to usually be parents under the delusion that their sons can do no wrong. Especially mothers. Let me tell you I sure am sick of these boy mommies

Meanwhile, Watts strikes me as an unintelligent narcissist. His description of murdering his daughters seemed to be a ploy for sympathy, but it just made me want him to die slowly and painfully.

Yeah, his motive was for sure all about wanting to start over without the burden of having an ex-spouse and children forever in the background. Both men and women have murdered their spouses and children because of that motive.

People wrongly argue that Shannan must have had NPD/BPD because of how she was constantly chronicling their lives for social media. But that's what you have to do if you're caught up in an MLM so that you can peddle the product. And people caught up in MLMs aren't evil. Conversely, they're victims of a predatory practice themselves.

But all that misses the even bigger point that murder is never excusable, even if the person murdered had a personality disorder.

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