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I don't want to come off as reductive, bioessentialist, homophobic. I don't want to come off as bitter for being heterosexual. The sexual attraction I feel toward men isn't a choice, but I do choose to accept and fixate on it.

Am I entitled to hope to be treated well? Am I doomed to sexual suffering- surely it's not outrageous for me to hope to be loved and treated well. Surely humans are evolved enough to have basic respect at dire times. Am I foolish to be hopeful?

Basically I look at how men treat each other, how they talk about each other sexually. In my mind it's unacceptable. I don't care if that sounds bad. I know the way men think sexually about each other is just a magnified version of how they discuss women. Why are they concerned with degradation and ruination? Why is sex about destruction to them? Dissolution of respect? It is all about materialism. Is sex all about materialism?

Why do I want to view sex constructively?

Why must women be the fucking gatekeepers of our own safety? IS THIS biological when we know these hormones do change your mind? Where is the line drawn between nature and nurture? Am I getting too blackpilled on this shit? If I believe that gender "isn't real", then shouldn't all this solve itself as a part of solving general misogyny? Should i have confidence in this type of progress or is it too animalistic to change?

What even defines this male sexuality? In my opinion it's culture-driven manifestations and magnifications of biological impulse. It's not mind over matter, it's full integration of mind with matter.

Women don't deserve violence for liking men sexually. Yet it is what so much of us receive as the payoff. Where do we even go from here? "Political lesbianism" is not a solution. Heterosexual women do not deserve this.

If I ever see the word "hole" again I'm cracking.

My friends tell me "go to a therapist, your views on sex are weird." No they're fuckin not. Not when I see how men talk when they're alone.

I don't want to come off as reductive, bioessentialist, homophobic. I don't want to come off as bitter for being heterosexual. The sexual attraction I feel toward men isn't a choice, but I do choose to accept and fixate on it. Am I entitled to hope to be treated well? Am I doomed to sexual suffering- surely it's not outrageous for me to hope to be loved and treated well. Surely humans are evolved enough to have basic respect at dire times. Am I foolish to be hopeful? Basically I look at how men treat each other, how they talk about each other sexually. In my mind it's unacceptable. I don't care if that sounds bad. I know the way men think sexually about each other is just a magnified version of how they discuss women. Why are they concerned with degradation and ruination? Why is sex about destruction to them? Dissolution of respect? It is all about materialism. Is sex all about materialism? Why do I want to view sex constructively? Why must women be the fucking gatekeepers of our own safety? IS THIS biological when we know these hormones do change your mind? Where is the line drawn between nature and nurture? Am I getting too blackpilled on this shit? If I believe that gender "isn't real", then shouldn't all this solve itself as a part of solving general misogyny? Should i have confidence in this type of progress or is it too animalistic to change? What even defines this male sexuality? In my opinion it's culture-driven manifestations and magnifications of biological impulse. It's not mind over matter, it's full integration of mind with matter. Women don't deserve violence for liking men sexually. Yet it is what so much of us receive as the payoff. Where do we even go from here? "Political lesbianism" is not a solution. Heterosexual women do not deserve this. If I ever see the word "hole" again I'm cracking. My friends tell me "go to a therapist, your views on sex are weird." No they're fuckin not. Not when I see how men talk when they're alone.

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72 comments

You're not weird. There's something very wrong going on.

You're not entitled. And both of my boyfriends were really sweet to me, listened to my radfem rants, weren't pornsick / didn't need gross shit to be satisfied in the bedroom, very mild-mannered, never once raised their voices to me, etc. My ex had some issues that made us incompatible, i.e. not being able to converse with my friends and family, but my current bf is amazing. He reads and enjoys the most "girly" books I recommend to him, does more research on birth control than me, writes me love poems and romantic erotica, makes me c*m first every time, etc.

Both my ex and current bf grew up abroad (not in the western world), so idk if that influences their male sexuality.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you meet your boyfriend and/or your ex? Decent men are so hard to find!

Sure! I met my ex in a semi-small college discussion class and we became friends by just running into each other a lot and chatting. I eventually caught feelings and confessed to him, but he rejected me even though he had feelings for me because he didn't know how serious his feelings were and didn't want to lead me on (very sweet, very green flag). We started dating two months later, 6 months after we first met. We also did long distance for the vast majority of our relationship for reasons I won't elaborate on here.

I met my boyfriend when I studied abroad; we were matched as language exchange partners by an algorithm. We became friends by video calling regularly to practice our target languages, and he caught feelings for me before we even met in person. We met in person as friends twice and I started to like him. Right before I left the country, we met and confessed to each other and he said he'd wait for me to come back. We did long distance for 6 months before we met for the first time as a couple, and we haven't closed the distance yet, so there's a lot of long distance in our future.

Some things about them that I think contribute to them being sweet/decent: it was both of their first relationship, both were shy/quiet/reserved, and both had open minds / international interests. Asian countries -- both are from Asia -- definitely have a ton of misogyny, but it's different from what you find in the West... I was able to teach/educate both of them about misogyny and patriarchy in the west (and they believed me very easily because I grew up here and they didn't), and talk through any prejudices related to their upbringing over time. Neither one believed any misogynistic shit, but my ex had some mild racial prejudices from growing up in a homogenous country and my bf didn't know about things like how beauty standards can be oppressive. Actually, on our first date, I asked my bf jokingly if [men of his nationality] were / he was patriarchal, since people close to me had worried about that, and he said sincerely that [men of his nationality] were indeed often patriarchal, but he wasn't, since he was open-minded.

Also, I kind of put up a lot of barriers to entry for non-good guys, depending on how you see it. First, I don't wear makeup or shave my legs, and although I try to look cute, I prioritize comfort in dress, probably due to autism sensory issues / disregard for arbitrary social norms tbh. Since both were attracted to me regardless and loved me the way I am, that was a good sign. I was also open about my feminist beliefs and used that as a litmus test for if I wanted to date them. We waited for sex, especially with my current bf (6 months lol), and I think a lot of shitty guys would have just given up at that point. Long distance really sucks, but a guy being willing to do it shows that he values an emotional/romantic connection just as much as or more than a physical/sexual connection. Oh, and in both cases we were friends for months first.

Honestly, if I hadn't met my current bf, I was prepared to be single for a while, since I didn't want to use dating apps and wanted to meet someone organically and become friends first. I know that takes a lot of luck, though. Sending good vibes your way to meet a good person!

Thank you for your detailed response! They both sound very sweet and respectful.

I think that’s probably the best way to meet a man—in real life through shared experiences/circumstances, like a class or activity of some kind. Dating apps are full of really gross men who only want to hook up and I gave up on them pretty quickly. I’ve met a couple good men through my hobbies, but of course they’re married!

It’s definitely a good sign when he’s willing to wait for sex… if he actually cares about you and your boundaries he will wait. You’re right that most shitty guys will just give up if they don’t get it right away.

Thanks for the good vibes, sending some your way too! :)

Your views aren't weird. I'm so tired of men at the moment. I'm in the process of leaving a 3-year relationship, and as we were watching a show together last night, my ex left the room because I wouldn't allow him to grope me. It makes me sad, but the level of entitlement he feels to my body - as well as how he refuses to hang out with me unless he can sexualize me - reminds me of exactly why I'm leaving.

Women don't deserve violence for liking men sexually.

Based, not weird.

[+] [Deleted] 8 points

I think good men exist.

I am in a bit of a weird spot with my boyfriend right now, but he is a really good example I think for the most part.

We first started dating we were 19 and that was when I found out about the porn stuff with human trafficking and everything. I went to him with the evidence I found and he stop watching. He listens to me and changes his view on things. He’s a very considerate boyfriend as well when our university classes were online and we lived together he would do a full deep clean of our apartment occasionally as a surprise when I’d get off (chores were fairly split but I’m a bit of a mess) and he’d cook food and bring it to me at work and we’d eat in my car together on my break. He genuinely is very sweet and treats me well.

The reason I said in a weird place is because we’ve come to a bit of an impasse on the trans topic. Ovarit is pretty small so you may or may not have seen my posts but we agreed at the end of this month we’re doing a formal debate with academic sources to try and convince each other of the other’s side.

And just from him doing his own research hes already said there is an aspect of the trans argument he wants to take off the table because him doing his own research has already caused him to agree with me on my side, so I’m not too worried about the debate honestly.

But I think that is the big thing to look for- is he willing to listen and change? I didn’t fix my boyfriend, and you cannot fix other people, but I was lucky enough to stumble across a man who is willing to listen and acknowledge my life and experience.

If you can find a man who is genuinely willing to do that, then I think long term that is the key.

my bf also listens to me and changes his mind about things if I'm right. we both stopped watching porn because we both understood how much it rots your brain. he says, especially, he notices how much porn has rotten men and boys' brains. i was the one who told him about how most porn stars are trafficked women, many amateur videos are revenge porn. there is no way of knowing which is which. most of the videos are also just so violent. you could hardly find anything sweet and romantic.

I think loving men is a fool’s errand.

I accept that I find certain men attractive and I also desire having sex with them. That doesn’t change the fact that they will mistreat me or disappoint me or both. I’ve accepted that they are shitty human beings and I’m not expecting them to give me the kind of love I want. Therefore I will also not invest emotionally in them.

My husband is no saint, but he's pretty good as men go. That said, I had to learn to let go of aspirations for a lot of romance or a lot of kindness from him. He tries, but men are just not socialized to be understanding or considerate. They don't get it and never will. I love him, he is getting better at these things with time, and he is a great partner and lover. But he will just never give me that romantic fulfillment that women write books about. I don't think that exists. I have been blessed to have dated really only very good men, as men go. None of them hurt me or ever would. They were all smart and caring in their way. Good people. But they are just human, and very spoiled and entitled to women's labor. It's just how men are.

I agree with others, look to your female friends for emotional closeness, and keep your standards high for men. But do not expect a man to be your lover, partner and best friend all at once. Two out of three is probably the best you can hope for.

One thing that I think really helped with my luck (aside from dating pre-smart phones) was also making it clear that I would tolerate no nonsense: no cheating, no hitting me, no disrespect. I probably tolerated disrespect a bit too much by not breaking up, but basically I dish it back out and I don't feel bad about it. This trains men to watch what they say with you. The other two are absolute deal breaker the first time. Only say it once, early on, and be very clear you fucking mean it. Men who are decent should have no problem with it and expect the same in return.

Yeah… I’m a straight woman and it feels pretty hopeless. Is it so bad that I want to find a man who respects me and truly sees me as his equal?

Maybe I will find my Nigel in the rough. Maybe I won’t and I’ll be single forever. I have had a hard time accepting the latter option but I do have fulfilling friendships and hobbies that I focus on.

[–] crodish 19 points Edited

"Political lesbianism" is not a solution. Heterosexual women do not deserve this.

Fucking thank you. Signed, a wlw

Also your friends are likely libfem douchebags. Nothing you said is weird at all and the despair and rage in your post is very warranted.

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