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I saw a youtube short that highlighted what a massive waste of money and time makeup is.

Look at all that product she has on her face. And in the end, once she was done blending it together, it made....no difference. She looked exactly the same, except a bit tanner maybe?

Sis started out looking like the Colossal Titan, yet a guy on the street would look at her and probably think she's not wearing any makeup at all.

Like no disrespect if makeup is your thing, but WHY do we do this to ourselves? She spent hours doing that. I don't know why she seemed upset to blend it when she knew she'd have to take it off at the end of the day anyway. You can argue that makeup is like art for your body but at least a painter won't break out in zits if he doesn't destroy his painting before he goes to sleep.

Apparently she likes to do SFX makeup which is cool looking but my god is it worth it? Literally every "remove my makeup with me" video has her wincing in pain. All I can hope is that youtube and tiktok pay her decent enough money to justify doing it.

I saw a youtube [short](https://youtube.com/shorts/WbDOByBXdbc?feature=share) that highlighted what a massive waste of money and time makeup is. Look at all that product she has on her face. And in the end, once she was done blending it together, it made....no difference. She looked exactly the same, except a bit tanner maybe? Sis started out looking like the Colossal Titan, yet a guy on the street would look at her and probably think she's not wearing any makeup at all. Like no disrespect if makeup is your thing, but WHY do we do this to ourselves? She spent *hours* doing that. I don't know why she seemed upset to blend it when she knew she'd have to take it off at the end of the day anyway. You can argue that makeup is like art for your body but at least a painter won't break out in zits if he doesn't destroy his painting before he goes to sleep. Apparently she likes to do [SFX](https://youtube.com/shorts/-DTqlAVmn9I?feature=share) makeup which is cool looking but my god is it worth it? Literally every "remove my makeup with me" video has her wincing in pain. All I can hope is that youtube and tiktok pay her decent enough money to justify doing it.

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And part of the con is that make-up is sold in pharmacies, stores dedicated to products promoting health. I've never understood that.

Sis started out looking like the Colossal Titan

10/10 would lol again

My perspective, as a mid-range Millennial who works in defence policy: I do not do it for me. For women who are younger, who are in school/academia, who work remotely, who work in sectors where men can wear jeans and T-shirts, there might be little cost to wearing no makeup. For older women, for women in senior management, for women who work in international law, or finance, or government, or in places where men are expected to wear a suit and tie, it's expected, and the social/professional cost of not doing so is real.

Should we take a principled stand, no matter the cost? That's a matter of individual judgment, but I'd suggest that just as not every gay or lesbian worker 30 years ago decided that having their partner treated as a spouse at work events was a hill worth dying on - and thus some of them got to rise higher than they would have and changed the culture - so is it useful to have feminist women become professionally successful even if it means compromises. (That's leaving aside whether everyone has an individual obligation to sacrifice greatly for an ideology, which I find culty, and on a par with people who think separatism is the only answer for all feminists, etc. It won't work, and pushing it fractures an already small movement.)

Here's what I've observed in those circles that I'm interested in discussing on Ovarit, in particular: the one group of women who wear minimal/no makeup in my professional circles are the military, almost all of whom are mid-career to senior officers. Those who do, wear a bit when they're in the uniform that is the equivalent of a suit, and almost universally none in the camouflage uniform. Until recently, many militaries forbade makeup, although in practice nobody got in trouble for tinted lipstick and very light mascara. It doesn't seem to hurt them. Part of this, no doubt, is that they have a cohort, albeit a tiny one, which makes me think: if all the civilian women in my unit stopped wearing makeup, would I feel safer doing so too, in terms of being perceived as "unprofessional"? But equally, part of why they pay no penalty for this is that they're seen as "honourary men," which makes me consider that it's a big problem if the only way to be accepted without performing femininity is to work to be coded as male/masculine. I'm a woman and I won't pretend otherwise, and I'd love not to be held to a double cosmetic standard without having to become an "honourary man."

But here's another wrinkle: a lot of NATO militaries are relaxing/altering dress standards. Some of them are letting people choose uniform items from either sex's catalog (sorry, "all genders" eyeroll.) It turns out this was a good idea gone wrong: a lot of women said mens' trousers fit better, but they couldn't order them, and could that change? So now men can order the pencil skirts, which I don't actually care about (and doubt will happen much) but wasn't the point. But they're also allowing women (and often men) to now wear their hair down, have "faddish" hair colours (which is how they describe hair colours not found in nature), makeup, and jewelry. And the uptake is big. I've met seriously accomplished women, 35-50, who are deeply excited about being able to have scarlet nails and teal streaks in their hair and wear "less natural" makeup. (You were previously required to have natural looking makeup, ie pink lipstick, not bright red, much less eg green.)

Part of me thinks, it's just the novelty, they've been unable to get manicures since they were 18. But part of me thinks we're going backwards: some of the women who had made the most progress on being evaluated for their performance, without reference to their sex, are really really happy that they can explicitly code themselves as feminine and performing femininity. It puzzles me. Occasionally I've worked in an environment where I'm assigned civilian versions of boots and camouflage, and one of the things I love is I have no makeup, and my hair has to be out of the way but I don't need to style it. I have zero interest in joining the military, but if I could wear super comfy, functional clothes, put my hair in a plait, and not wear makeup, while still having credibility and being perceived as professional, I'd be ecstatic. And women I like and respect are happy to give that up.

We'll see in a couple years, I'm hoping it's just the novelty and they realize the upkeep sucks for many reasons, but ... it's thought provoking.

The funny thing is, they always talk about women who work in fashion having a uniform. They'll wear all black, or jeans and a white shirt, every day. They have unfaddish hair. Some, like in France, won't have makeup (very expensive skincare instead). They have the odd high fashion piece for evenings but for work they create a uniform.

I wore school uniform for 13 years and I'm a fan, if I get to choose the style and colour, as an adult.

Funny you raise that, as I've been thinking, with constant travel, of getting a sort of capsule wardrobe, in mostly black, and keeping a duplicate of the basics (I do not have expensive taste in clothes) in the place I spend the second most time. Part of it is having fewer things to drag around, but part is just taking the decision out of it, and far less hassle about shoes/work bag/accessories if it's mostly black.

I've often thought how much easier work travel clothing is for me: a suit or two, twice as many shirts as suits, and enough ties not to have to repeat them in a week, and that's about it. Instead of lots of dressed, which are harder to repeat, I'm thinking my variation might be a washable black suit, maybe also a grey one, and shells in a range of colours for underneath. Less of a mental load, and of course it's not a major cognitive stressor, but every little decision adds up.

That is what lots of celebrity types and rich people do. I would! My clothes are all the same colour and I rotate them for work,

[–] ghoul2 3 points Edited

Sis started out looking like the Colossal Titan

Girl you're killing me lmaoooo.

A lot of these extreme blending and contouring techniques were adapted from drag.

I think it's a con for different reasons beyond it just being not that noticable. since the market exploded in the last ten years, accelerating rapidly aroud 2016-2017, brands are really trying to make a groundbreaking palette but nothing is ever going to be as impactful like ABH Modern Renaissance. It's now a con because even colors that used to be hard to find now are commonplace and companies are discontinuing a lot of their tried and true formulas that older consumers liked in favor of products that could go viral on tiktok or fit a younger aesthetic and whatnot. Colourpop is bad about that, subtly raising their prices, issuing colors constantly that are dupes of each other but making them all limited edition so it's actually hard to compare it to what you already have. I know a lot of people here were mad about Temptalia going TRA but her website is one of the best aids against hyperconsumption because you can compare things to things you already own using her website. And Colourpop contributed to my breaking point with makeup, their constant wasteful release cycle, their product quality going downhill while they phase out their most loved stuff to push more expensive product... (like replacing the ultra glossy lip that was $5 with the luxe gloss that is $7 and ISN'T BETTER and comes in packages that uses more plastic). Also the Norvina palettes that people were going nuts for but were full of dupes of itself. I could rant all day about the absolute state of makeup

Edit to add: and I don't even wear it. I wear a tinted lipbalm but that's it

When I asked to wear makeup, my mom said I could if I spent one year doing a skin care routine morning and night without missing one day.

For her, it was a way to stall me for a year and to make sure I didn't sleep in my makeup and ruin my skin.

For me, it ended up teaching me to prioritize health (like the health of my skin) over beauty, and to see the beauty in simply naked and healthy skin.

I wore make up for a while and then I took a year off and went back that that "just skin care" routine. This was after I had gotten to a point where I felt I had to wear make up. I kept a journal and it caused a lot of growth in me.

Now, I wear makeup maybe once or twice a month. I know "I wear it for me" is typically such a lie, but I wear it so infrequently that I think it is the truth for me, or close to it.

I wear it when we are having a nice date night and I'm just generally being super prissy with everything.

I wear very little make up, but some, when I have an important work meeting at my remote job. I find that the camera makes it hard to see the outline of my eyes so my expressions are less... Expressive. So I wear eyeliner.

And I wear it when I meet my mother in law because she loves makeup and loves talking about it, and it just helps the conversations.

[–] xy_equals_guy 3 points Edited

I started wearing a little bit of make up when I was 10. I've got bad skin - oily, huge pores on my T zone, sebaceous filaments on my nose and chin, and greasy spot prone skin all over my face, back and chest. My skin looks disgusting. On top of this, I'm now ageing prematurely, which was very unexpected compared to all my family, who have similar lifestyles.

I have a severe orthodontic problem and my eyes looked quite sunken even before their dark circles sagged with age.

In brief, I'm actually ugly, and I'm ugly in such a way that people think I'm tired or unhealthy. We all know it's hard for women being ugly, and I have an additional problem on top of that, because I'm vegan and people judge and harass you for it. Not wearing make up would basically be an invite for bullying and concern-trolling from those such inclined and who know/learn that I'm vegan.

I do think make up has it's place for those with bad skin. People think oily skin is unhygienic. make up and skin care prevents judgement. It's not like boys and men enjoy having acne either, more of them would wear make up if it was socially acceptable to do so.

shoud have stayed at Colossal Titan at least it would make her stand out from the crowd isn't that what she wants? maybe she could bond with people over a love of AOT

I've had three women I've known explain to me that they like doing their makeup because it's the only creative thing they get to do on a daily basis. I don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand it makes me sad because I mourn for their lack of creative outlets, but at the same time if it's something that bring joy to their everyday life I don't want to stomp on that. I just wish they had creative outlets or the desire to explore other creative options that aren't steeped in oppression.

Literally begging these women to learn to write. It's free and it doesn't destroy your self esteem or your face.

You should feel like they lied to you and themselves because they did. Only creative outlet? Yeah sure totally I bet that's the only reason they "like" it. 🙄

It's why I won't ever wear makeup, apart from maybe a bit of concealer to keep the spider angiomas on my nose from standing out so much, but honestly those things have been on my face for so long that everyone knows I have them.

The way I see it, when it comes to products I ask myself two questions:

1) Do I want to use this?

2) If I were a man, would I be expected to use this?

If the answer to both questions is no, then I don't even bother.

Edit: I don't even bother covering the spider angiomas anymore. They won't go away, so I've decided to just accept being stuck with them.

I have telangiectasias and a decent amount of background redness. With Covid, I stopped wearing makeup completely, and it’s been liberating.

However, my life has also been very small in this time.

When I widen it, I might go back to wearing concealer or foundation, to be honest.

I don’t know about you, but I get the feeling some people assume I’ve got unwholesome habits. (I have one drink like once a year!) Some people get the cute ruddy cheeks, which makes it look like they’re into outdoor sports, I know I just look unhealthy. Bummer.

The angiomas I have appear as two red dots on the bridge of my nose, one above the other. They first appeared two years ago when the pandemic started so I think they were triggered by the irritation from wearing a mask. They have not even faded away since and a month ago I went to the dermatologist who confirmed my suspicions that they were spider angiomas. It kind of looks like I have two pimples on my nose all the time, but that of course isn’t the case. They’re annoying to me sometimes but not harmful ultimately.

I think they can get rid of those with lasers

Yeah I’ve been told laser treatment can remove them but I’m debating whether it would be worth the money.

[–] Wegotthebeat 0 points Edited

They come back, so it’s got to be done semi regularly. Some people find it worthwhile, me I think makeup is actually the more economical choice.

Make up is a waste of money and time. What a tragedy for women that we’ve been coerced and conned into wasting so much of our money and time. Women should consider stopping wearing that shit in solidarity with other women, so other women won’t feel like the only ones not doing it. Every time we perform conformity with these standards we’re helping to be the pressure on other women.

I don’t know when I stopped bothering but it’s so nice being able to scratch an itch without worrying that I just made myself look ridiculous. Now makeup looks weird to me. It changes your perception as you get used to it either way.

Every time we perform conformity with these standards we’re helping to be the pressure on other women.

Yup. It's kind of like the Prisoner's Dilemma/ Game Theory.

I'm so sorry that some women can't go without makeup because of their job (for example, stewardesses, for a job interview, many more examples in this thread).

For the rest, they should try to stop. They create insecurities just to make money off of you. The industry is horrible for the environement. They make you break out even more, so you need more make up.

It’s annoying that men are normalizing not shaving as compatible with looking “professional” but for women, makeup is still de rigueur in so many fields.

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