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27 comments

Look, we can call men on their bluff. If they would rather lose you than submit to what you want, let them do it. It’s their choice. It’s because women (or people in general) are too needy for companionship that they allow their partners to treat them poorly for a long time. I’ve had petty fights with my ex bf before too and it was a game to him. If I got up and left he would come chasing instead of standing his ground and doing what he wanted.

Men love to play these games because at their core they are bullies who see the world through a hierarchy. They do not have the empathy and compassion that women do for others. Women do not need to put up with them.

Remember that the real reason Lilith was shunned and made into a night demon according to the legend was because she refused to be submissive to Adam. Basically Lilith is the personification of a strong woman who refuses to bow to male authority, and naturally she's framed as evil. Men can't handle the idea of women who won't submit. It scares them, even.

Despite my Christian background, I'm with Lilith on this one. No one can make me submit to a man, not after what I've been through. I rebelled against my own father because he wanted complete control over me, and that made him furious. But I didn't care - I vowed I would never give in to that man. He called me horrible things, he even hurt me. I decided it was better to never see him again than to submit to him.

I can't fathom dealing with the type of shit this author seems to feel is inevitable, and I've been in a relationship for 8 years. No way in hell am I "submitting" to any man or dealing with the kind of impasses she mentions. I'd rather be alone and celibate if that was my only choice.

What the actual fuck, what absurd, insulting, misogynistic drivel.

I am happily married, I do not and would not ever consider my relationship in terms of submission and dominance. Seriously what an insult to women and men who live lives of mutual love and respect together. If the author hasn't come across a man who treats her with the respect she deserves, that sucks but don't try and tar the rest of us with that shitty brush.

Way to bring up the old trans arguments of finding some totally disconnected species as an example of human behaviour. Fuck off with this absolute horse shit.

Yeah, I was especially disturbed by the abusive dynamic she's describing here:

I’m talking about deep power struggles where communication comes to a standstill: the man who “processes” all night and refuses to go to sleep until the woman gets him off, with refusal meaning this goes on until dawn and continues the next day

She means gets him off sexually, I'm presuming. Any woman whose partner behaves in such a manner should immediately kick his ass to the curb.

Agreed. Complexity in relationships is vast and varied. People who just whittle it down to "men BAD" are being disingenuous at best. I've seen my share of cruel and savage women in all manner of interpersonal relationships. Being married isn't easy, but it can very much be worthy. As the breadwinner in my family Id not be half as far along in life if my husband hadn't brought up the rear. His commitment made space for me to crush it, and I'm crushing it.

She’s making the error of believing that just because men want to dominate, women have to accept submission, which is not true. And also, saying “the strong will prevail, so what’s the point?” really understates how much feminism does to help vulnerable women.

Does the female bedbug, whose exoskeleton is literally pierced by the male at insemination, abhor mating? Too bad for her, Nature doesn’t care.

Does the male praying mantis enjoy being eaten by the female?

I don't get this. Just don't submit on the things that are important to you!

[–] DurableBook 18 points Edited

Right?

Like, I've been partnered with a man for 20 years. Yes, there have been times he engaged in typical male pouting and sulking, but I've never seen any need to give into these behaviors.

The idea that my male partner is "stronger" and therefore someone to whom I need submit only makes sense if one decides that physical size is the sole meaningful form of strength. Which is bizarre and stupid in the context of today's world. Sure, my spouse could beat me in hand-to-hand combat, but why would I fight on those terms when I could win on so many others?

I have far stronger social networks and far more sources of external support. I have more stockpiled savings and more resources to draw upon. I am more resilient, physically and psychologically. I have skilled training and more job security than my partner. Etc.

Sure the average male human can win a physical altercation against the average female human. The average pitbull can win a physical altercation against the average male human, so does that mean men should always "submit" to the authority of domesticated fighting dogs? Or are there perhaps other, far more relevant strengths to consider?

[–] proudcatlady 10 points Edited

Plus men have some bizarre psychological thing going on and a lot of them are totally intimidated by us. The other day Nigel mentioned how nervous and anxious he felt when I stumble around being clumsy and swearing at furniture. Said it made him feel like a kid with an angry parent in the next room.

It didn’t even occur to me that that could have any kind of effect on him. Like yeah when HE starts swearing at burning chicken on the stovetop and angrily hurling it into the trash can and stomping around I’m taking notes because if that’s a pattern then I’m outta here (we recently moved in together). But that’s because he’s hulking and his sex is known for violence, especially against my sex. But I didn’t feel like I needed to “make him happy” the way he said I made him feel. I felt like I might need to end things.

Not just him either. Lots of men whine and cry about how scary and intimidating women are. A lot of their rage seems to stem from the fact that their own desire for us makes them feel powerless. All these one-sided head games that we have nothing to do with, just them handing over tons of power to us for no reason. But they never stay single or avoid women. Never.

[–] GreenBeanJean 8 points Edited

Excellent comment. This part:

Sure, my spouse could beat me in hand-to-hand combat, but why would I fight on those terms when I could win on so many others?

is particularly satisfying. I have found the male of the species is breathtakingly easy to manipulate.

So breathtakingly easy to manipulate that I honestly thought they were pulling my/our leg because it couldn’t possibly be that easy. I spent years partly giving men the benefit of the doubt and partly hesitating to shoot fish in a barrel. Turns out, yes, it really is that easy. It still stuns me a bit.

You hit the nail on the head. Brute strength is not humanity’s primary evolutionary strength. It’s nice to have sure, but it’s not the end all be all for humans.

Our capacity for social collaboration and strength in numbers is what gave our species an evolutionary edge. The traits that make this strength possible (patience, listening skills, forming strong social bonds) seem to come more naturally to women than men.

Exactly! Makes me laugh whenever people try to equate men's ability to lift heavier things with some kind of supposed "superiority."

What qualities are unique to humans compared to all other animal life we know of? Hint, it's not our ability to punch through drywall.

When you look at those physiological traits that actually set us apart as a species, it turns out there's no male superiority.

For instance, humans aren't especially impressive as sprinters compared to other species, but we are remarkable endurance predators...and the advantage men have over women in a race decreases the longer the race becomes. At ultramarathon distances, women even start edging out over men.

Our physiological adaptability is also pretty unusual, and here the female body is the unqualified winner. Female bodies are better able to handle extremes of temperature, famine conditions, unusual new immune challenges, and on and on.

And then of course there's those big beautiful cortical lobes of ours. Despite the fact that men have been trying to prove their innate cognitive superiority since several thousand years before women were even allowed to attend school, the fact remains that a woman's brain is in every functional way the equal of a man's brain. And the woman's brain requires less energy to power it.

I struggle to imagine any man not behaving like this eventually

Struggle away. Doesn't make your suspicions real