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I've seen this old chestnut be passed around the BDSM community for years. I've always hated it. The first reason it was annoying is because BDSM folx like to brag about how they are, if anything, the go-to authorities on abuse prevention. And of course, their claim that BDSM is empowering is annoying. They say that women are somehow safer if they know the "difference" between BDSM and abuse.

But the danger lies in believing there's a difference at all. They believe that a man can enjoy violence against women but that doesn't make him a bad person. He enjoys violence but does not condone violence? Hunh?

It's doesn't prevent abuse to "learn the difference."

It's a form of negging. "Was that abuse, though? Was it? Are you sure? Let's talk about it. There's a lot to learn! A lot of nuance."

In other words, don't rush to ruin a guy's life! It spreads the lie that sex predators can be rehabbed by upgrading their abuse into a new whiz bang sexual identity. You just have to say please and thank you and if you have an oopsie, just say sorry and mind your manners the next few days.

That's the wife-beating cycle.

We should be more open about how BDSM is not normal. There is no such thing as non-abusive abuse. We shouldn't be compelled to be "respectful." What "no kink-shaming" means is "don't question or challenge our behavior. Give us dominance over the narrative and give us good publicity or else you're mean."

You're not protecting young women by telling them that not all abuse is abuse. You're protecting abusers. You're giving them a negotiating tool for the consequences of their actions. You are making the victim out to be the bad guy for "false accusations."

If any young women are reading this and are wondering about BDSM and if the community is so bad: I know at least ten women that got involved in.

The number of these women that didn't have to flee: zero. I've known them for almost 20 years. Not one of them didn't wind up in hiding or in a women's shelter. "It got out of control. Turns out he wasn't into BDSM, he was just an abuser!" No, he was into BDSM because he was an abuser. These women all lost valuable time, reminding themselves there was a "difference" and then doing mental gymnastics to put the behavior in the "not abuse" category.

I know it's an out-of-the-box community, and some of the fashions look cool. But I for one am not using cute words like "kinky" anymore. I'm using words like "paraphilic." That gives a clearer picture of what's going on.

I've seen this old chestnut be passed around the BDSM community for years. I've always hated it. The first reason it was annoying is because BDSM folx like to brag about how they are, if anything, the go-to authorities on abuse prevention. And of course, their claim that BDSM is empowering is annoying. They say that women are somehow safer if they know the "difference" between BDSM and abuse. But the danger lies in believing there's a difference at all. They believe that a man can enjoy violence against women but that doesn't make him a bad person. He enjoys violence but does not condone violence? Hunh? It's doesn't prevent abuse to "learn the difference." It's a form of negging. "Was that abuse, though? Was it? Are you sure? Let's talk about it. There's a lot to learn! A lot of nuance." In other words, don't rush to ruin a guy's life! It spreads the lie that sex predators can be rehabbed by upgrading their abuse into a new whiz bang sexual identity. You just have to say please and thank you and if you have an oopsie, just say sorry and mind your manners the next few days. That's the wife-beating cycle. We should be more open about how BDSM is *not* normal. There is no such thing as non-abusive abuse. We shouldn't be compelled to be "respectful." What "no kink-shaming" means is "don't question or challenge our behavior. Give us dominance over the narrative and give us good publicity or else you're mean." You're not protecting young women by telling them that not all abuse is abuse. You're protecting abusers. You're giving them a negotiating tool for the consequences of their actions. You are making the victim out to be the bad guy for "false accusations." If any young women are reading this and are wondering about BDSM and if the community is so bad: I know at least ten women that got involved in. The number of these women that didn't have to flee: zero. I've known them for almost 20 years. Not one of them didn't wind up in hiding or in a women's shelter. "It got out of control. Turns out he wasn't into BDSM, he was just an abuser!" No, he was into BDSM *because* he was an abuser. These women all lost valuable time, reminding themselves there was a "difference" and then doing mental gymnastics to put the behavior in the "not abuse" category. I know it's an out-of-the-box community, and some of the fashions look cool. But I for one am not using cute words like "kinky" anymore. I'm using words like "paraphilic." That gives a clearer picture of what's going on.

35 comments

[–] pennygadget 14 points

I see so many kinksters whine that 50 Shades of Gray misrepresented them by making BDSM look rapey. If anything, 50 Shades was being too kind to this subculture by making the coomer scrote hot and showing the woman having an occasional orgasm. LOL
[–] notapatsy 47 points

A distinction without a difference if ever I saw one, and nothing but a normalizing of misogynist abuse. Might as well call BDSM "ethical violence against women" or "ethical misogyny," as if either were possible.

[–] Escapedacult 30 points

Always really skeeved by any bdsm or kink stuff personally.... even if participants are 'consenting' it just seems like a very, very, very unhealthy coping mechanism for some other deep rooted soul wound. Really weirds me out. In HISHSCHOOL over 10 years ago my first experience learning of bdsm was a couple who regualrly showed up with cuts all over themselves, apparently they cut each other during intercourse and pressed their wounds together like WTF. Everything gets weird when bdsm is normalized. A female manager(me) requests a male employee to complete X task? The undertone of dom/sub or punishment for disobeying is there more often than not when working physical jobs like I do... the phrase 'anything for you' or 'yes, ma'am' is like 50/50 at minimum a sexual hint. This isnt normal yall. Thanks for this post!!
[–] spiderberries 28 points

It really bothers me how calling your parents daddy or mommy is now taboo. Normal words that children use should not have a sexual connotation.

[–] drdeeisback 16 points

Really good point, any situation where a woman speaks or acts with authority is sexualised. But there's a long history of this, e.g. the difference in meaning between 'master' and 'mistress'. This particularly hit me recently when I received a Tarot deck to review that portrays the Queen of Swords as a classic 'dominatrix'. I told the artist her deck had a lot of interesting interpretations but I wouldn't use/publicise it because it had a pornographic image in it, and got several walls o' text from her about how 'I shouldn't be uncomfortable with it'.

[–] assignedpooratbirth trans-wealthy 24 points

I feel like not even 10 years ago if a man said he likes hitting his wife because it arouses him, everyone saw him for what he was, an actual psychopath. Now, I see more and more rape and murder cases be thrown out because they “just don’t know if she consented to it.”
[–] chocolatefondant21 25 points

A big part of the problem is the women who get involved and will defend this lifestyle tooth and nail if you try to tell them they’re coping with trauma. I don’t want to engage with BDSM types anymore because they are blind to how unhealthy they are.

[–] Maplefields 14 points Edited

Yep. An active drowning victim will unknowingly try to drown anyone who comes near them to try to pull them out or just because they were in the vicinity by accident and become secondary drowning victims. The most we can do is throw them a life raft from a distance and hope they come to their senses to grab it. And to warn other women to avoid active drowning victims no matter how much we are vilified for “kink shaming.”
[–] jadegreen 2 points

Also, trying to rescue someone who has fallen through ice probably has a clearer mental image. Just waltzing out there to grab them is just going to get you crunched through the same thin ice - use some sort of life preserving tool or create a human chain to distribute your weight horizontal.

[–] Committing_Tervery 4 points

Wait, is this actually true about drowning? I’ve never heard this before
[–] Maplefields 12 points Edited

For your own safety, I recommend you go watch a video on how to rescue a drowning victim. There’s a reason lifeguards carry floatation devices when they go after victims. The victim is operating on blind instinct and grabs at anything in the vicinity and tries to climb it, including people, making them the secondary victims after they are forced under water. The trained life guard will offer the device instead of coming near them to protect themselves. It’s only safe to come near the victim if they are unconscious or after they’re holding the device and have come back to their senses.

Edit: here are some good videos.

Video 0: learn what drowning looks like (hint: movies are wrong) so that if you happen to be next to one, especially an adult, you know to protect yourself.

Video 1: If you have no plans of being a lifeguard, watch this video on how to help a victim without risking your life. Do not do more.

Video 2: why you shouldn’t try more if you’re not a lifeguard. skip to 4:12, where lifeguards are taught to escape victims that have latched onto them. Lifeguards go through routine training to keep their skills fresh, that’s why an average person shouldn’t attempt any of this.

[–] CharieC 9 points

The women, of varying ages, that I've known engaged in some flavour of (and defending every flavour of) BDSM would passionately promote it as the most intensely intimate way to connect with their sexual partner: all that extra trust and the sweet delirium of "subdrop" leading to the subsequent euphoria of "aftercare". And I've just wondered, what about connecting with your partner and getting taken care of without first being hurt by them? Too pedestrian and old-fashioned, I suppose.
[–] pennygadget 4 points

Its like they feel they have to "earn" the right to be cuddled and treated with affection by first running a gauntlet of depraved sex acts.
[–] shewolfoffrance 20 points

"Women should be browbeaten into saying 'yes' to men's most deranged kinks." If they do, they're "good, giving, and game". If they don't, they're controlling prudes who are denying men's right to sexual fulfillment, which is practically emotional abuse.

"It got out of control. Turns out he wasn't into BDSM, he was just an abuser!"

This shouldn't be surprising. We know sexual predators will become priests, doctors, coaches, teachers, stepfathers, etc. to get access to victims. There's no real barrier to entry for BDSM. Sure, you can take classes on how to do it "safely", but it's optional; and more importantly: there's no safe way to beat the shit out of someone.
[–] lilies 10 points

This reminds me of this one post i saw on r/AskWomen yesterday, about what act in the bedroom would feel degrading. The top comment was a very based woman saying that violent acts are a turn off and she doesn't trust men who get off on violence towards women (not quite verbatim but that was the gist). And of fucking course some people managed to get offended by this (though thankfully there were also lots of comments agreeing with her). Unfortunately the mods of r/AskWomen locked the post and disabled comments 🙄, because ofc women talking about their boundaries need to be censored for daring to be "sex negative" or whatever the fuck was the reasoning for the censorship.
[–] shewolfoffrance 10 points

"Sex negative" is gaslighting. You aren't sexually liberated unless you're free to say no, and free from retaliation for saying no.

[–] lilies 4 points

Just to clarify that's not what the mods said lol, afaik they didn't say anything about why the comments got disabled, I'm just speculating on the reasoning. But in general the mods on that sub are really strict with what can be posted and censor soo much stuff so idk.
[–] shewolfoffrance 4 points

Yeah, lol, it's hard to get an honest answer for why certain posts get locked. But Reddit being Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised if the mods felt threatened by ladies hating on kink. I didn't think you were defending sex pozzery or anything.

[–] JacquelineBeauvoir 8 points

I fled the fucking state to leave my abuser. Yeck. Now I have a hard time hiding my disdain for any hint of aggression when it comes to sex. I've lost friends over it.
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