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I don't really pay attention to celebrity culture, nor do I have social media, so it's been interesting to watch Ovarit discuss female celebrities like Ellen Page and Billie Eilish. Something that has really stood out to me in these discussions is that a significant amount of women on here seem to believe that female celebrities have a large or near-total amount of control over what they say and do.

I've been taken aback at some of the comments I've seen. In the case of Billie Eilish, a lot of people have been blaming her directly, making all kinds of claims about what she's thinking or why she would choose to sexualize herself in the way she has. It's being framed as some kind of failing on her part. That she's some kind of idiot, desperate to stay relevant, that she's brainwashed, that she genuinely believes this is empowerment, that she's doing this because she's insecure. To be fair, I have seen some people make comments about how so many other young female pop stars seem to go this same route, but then many just continue to assume that it's the personal fault, or decision, or choice, of these young women.

Why? Why are you so willing to believe that these women have any agency over their own careers? So much of it feels like blaming women for the decisions of men, but with extra steps.

We should absolutely be critical of choice feminism and of hyper-sexualization & objectification being framed as 'empowerment,' but I guess I'm just confused as to why people, in particular women on a feminist website, are content to stop there and not take it any farther? Why is everyone content to assume that the female celebrities saying these things--which conveniently enough, support the idea that women are (sex) objects to be owned and consumed by men--are in control of what they're saying? And before someone tries to quote her Vogue interview at me, do you honestly believe that celebrities, whose entire lives are managed by PR, are never made to lie?

It's been interesting to watch Ovarit users compare the Vogue cover to her previous style of baggy clothing and weird hair. Many times, on this site and elsewhere, I've seen her discussed as having a kind of authenticity because she wasn't dressing provocatively, and was making explicit statements about how she didn't want the focus to be on her body. As I've listened to people discuss her and celebrate her (old) style, I couldn't help thinking that it was such a brilliant marketing scheme on the part of whomever is controlling her image and career.

In a culture where everything is hypersexualized, and there's an obvious social reaction to that--the rise of identities like asexuality, for starters, and the fact that such social trends are easily observed because everyone posts everything to social media--creating and molding a young female celebrity who rejected that kind of hypersexualization would be almost guaranteed to become popular. I think the majority of people love to believe they are different than the rest somehow, and they want to see that reflected in the media they consume, the celebrities they follow. Whether they are aware of that or not.

I'm curious what everyone else thinks about these things. And frankly, I'm tired of seeing adult women on a feminist-run website personally blame a younger woman (whose entire teenage life and career has been controlled by others) for the actions of an industry that is run by men, bigger than her, and has already claimed her as its next victim. I'd like to have a discussion about female celebrities that specifically focuses on how they are controlled and managed.

I don't really pay attention to celebrity culture, nor do I have social media, so it's been interesting to watch Ovarit discuss female celebrities like Ellen Page and Billie Eilish. Something that has really stood out to me in these discussions is that a significant amount of women on here seem to believe that female celebrities have a large or near-total amount of control over what they say and do. I've been taken aback at some of the comments I've seen. In the case of Billie Eilish, a lot of people have been blaming her directly, making all kinds of claims about what she's thinking or why she would choose to sexualize herself in the way she has. It's being framed as some kind of failing on her part. That she's some kind of idiot, desperate to stay relevant, that she's brainwashed, that she genuinely believes this is empowerment, that she's doing this because she's insecure. To be fair, I have seen some people make comments about how so many other young female pop stars seem to go this same route, but then many just continue to assume that it's the personal fault, or decision, or choice, of these young women. Why? Why are you so willing to believe that these women have any agency over their own careers? So much of it feels like blaming women for the decisions of men, but with extra steps. We should absolutely be critical of choice feminism and of hyper-sexualization & objectification being framed as 'empowerment,' but I guess I'm just confused as to why people, in particular women on a feminist website, are content to stop there and not take it any farther? Why is everyone content to assume that the female celebrities saying these things--which *conveniently* enough, support the idea that women are (sex) objects to be owned and consumed by men--are in control of what they're saying? And before someone tries to quote her Vogue interview at me, do you honestly believe that celebrities, whose entire lives are managed by PR, are never made to lie? It's been interesting to watch Ovarit users compare the Vogue cover to her previous style of baggy clothing and weird hair. Many times, on this site and elsewhere, I've seen her discussed as having a kind of authenticity because she wasn't dressing provocatively, and was making explicit statements about how she didn't want the focus to be on her body. As I've listened to people discuss her and celebrate her (old) style, I couldn't help thinking that it was such a brilliant marketing scheme on the part of whomever is controlling her image and career. In a culture where everything is hypersexualized, and there's an obvious social reaction to that--the rise of identities like asexuality, for starters, and the fact that such social trends are easily observed because everyone posts everything to social media--creating and molding a young female celebrity who rejected that kind of hypersexualization would be almost guaranteed to become popular. I think the majority of people love to believe they are different than the rest somehow, and they want to see that reflected in the media they consume, the celebrities they follow. Whether they are aware of that or not. I'm curious what everyone else thinks about these things. And frankly, I'm tired of seeing adult women on a feminist-run website personally blame a younger woman (whose entire teenage life and career has been controlled by others) for the actions of an industry that is run by men, bigger than her, and has already claimed her as its next victim. I'd like to have a discussion about female celebrities that specifically focuses on how they are controlled and managed.

64 comments

[–] ligaments [OP] 37 points (+37|-0)

An excuse that gets used often by men is "she was very mature for her age." This is a cultural myth, that young girls 'know more' or are 'in control,' and thus it makes it okay to sexualize them, to objectify them, to abuse them.

It's depressing to watch women on a feminist-run site buy into that same myth. The way some Ovarit users are claiming she is responsible for her own objectification, that she somehow has agency, that she is in complete control of these decisions, that there's no possible way that her career, actions and words are being decided for her--it's another version of "she was mature for her age."

This industry breaks grown women, but a 19 year old whose career started when she was a minor somehow has that kind of agency and knowledge?

[–] XX_Power 7 points (+7|-0)

I haven't seen so many people say it's her fault and responsibility 100%. I think mostly women were just venting because there goes another barely legal kid prancing around in her underwear, having her stomach photoshopped away. It's sickening. But i think most of us are sick that she is pressured to do this, not sick at her.

I'm starting to think that similarly to what you laid out, this was all the plan all along. Make her non sexualized for a long time which to a lot of men, makes them want to see her naked and degraded even more! Then when she turns legal, she suddenly comes out as a blond large breasted bombshell. This stunt will make everyone who profits of her a shit ton of cash. It worked for Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Ariana Grande, Kylie Jenner, and so many more...