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[–] meranii 9 points (+9|-0)

God, that letter is disgusting. And he loses any sort of claim to presenting facts correctly when he says that 9 out of 10 men have gone to prostitutes.

Fact is, men who "pay for sex" (financially coerce desperate women) do not respect the women even as transactional partners (e.g. his claims that its all about being a customer like any other with a service provider). They see them as meat they're entitled to and prey to be manipulated and exploited as much as possible.

There was a big AMA by a "prostitution reviewer" (a businessman in Amsterdam who had the world's biggest website about that) on reddit a while ago, and I remember him saying he loved the young girls most of all and got off on them being nervous, shaking and crying, that it turned him on to "calm" them enough to do the deed. That he always tried to get freebies (like anal and oral, or no contraception) out of them and was proud if his manipulation worked. Also that his wife has no idea of his side business, that it's not cheating if it's "business".

[–] Liandra 5 points (+5|-0)

And he loses any sort of claim to presenting facts correctly when he says that 9 out of 10 men have gone to prostitutes.

I think he just uses that to make himself feel better. Because almost everyone does it, right? I am also German and tried to find a source and I could not find any source stating that for German guys. There was one survey which was specifically about people having sex outside existing relationships and in that case for the cheating men it was ~8% of them who used prostitutes.

[–] Lawful [OP] 4 points (+4|-0)

I've seen those "statistics" flying around a lot, but I've never seen a reputable source, and his maths of "oh well everyone who's not gay, asexual or literally such a chad that everyone sleeps with him for free pays for sex, right?" is laughable.

That he doesn't respect women, whether prostituted or not, reeks out of the entire text. The words he uses, the way he talks about them, the way he refers to the author of the letter he's responding to... never mind that he's so porn-rotted that he thinks if women were sexually liberated, it'd mean free porn sex for every man at all times, instead of women's freedom from exactly that. He doesn't think women are people. He thinks women are machines that provide sex and it's really so unfair that they get to be picky or say no, so there need to be some that can't do either.

He disgusts me. All johns disgust me. The woman he's responding to is completely right - no john is a good person. Good persons don't coerce sex.

[–] Lawful [OP] 8 points (+8|-0)

This open letter is the response of a disgusting manchild to being called out for his habit of paid rape by an exited woman. I feel that it needs to be seen because these men are whom "sex-positive" and "sex work positive" people are defending. Men like this, who call women wh*res and argue that they "need" to rape women who desperately need money because their wives won't do the specific thing they want them to. That is whom these self-proclaimed "feminists" are arguing have a right to sex.

I'll post a full translation of the German text in a comment underneath this one.

[–] Lawful [OP] 4 points (+4|-0) Edited

Open letter from a john Dear sex-seller, you have publicly confronted me with your views about me in an open letter published in German by Die Welt and in Norwegian on your blog. Now, while former sex service providers should generally have little trouble finding publicity, we punters generally don't have a voice - at most we hang out in dodgy forums and share your qualities and our experiences there. I am, however, in the fortunate position of being able to answer you in this blog. Yes, when a Hitzlsperger comes out as gay, the gazettes are full of respect. But if a celebrity gets caught with a hooker, he's screwed. Maybe even loses his job. Being gay is respected. Being a john seems to be a crime or should even be punished as such.

Digression 1: How many johns are there in Germany? Let's start with your biggest blunder: for you there is "the sex buyer". I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as THE client, just as there is no such thing as "the hooker". The only common characteristic of us punters is that we have sex for money. And the characteristic of prostitutes is that they exchange money for sex (and yes, we're leaving out all the women who exchange sex for a wedding ring, for jewellery, for recognition or love). Okay, there are the guys who don't necessarily pay for sex because they get enough sex anyway (I'm simplifying this a bit). On the one hand, there are the guys that some of your sex buddies, or maybe even you, think are so great that they're welcome to come into your bed. The guys who can tell you that you could fill out a dirndl without causing an outcry. The George Clooneys of the world. I know some of these guys and women are lining up to get laid with them. And think they're just the chick that's gonna crack him. And then there are the guys who have so much power and success that the girls like to throw themselves at them. Strictly speaking, this is also a form of prostitution. Even if there are probably some among these men who also like to book paid services. Nevertheless, let's say that there are maybe 2% of these types of men together. Then we have homosexual men. They are unlikely to go to wh'res, at least not after they know they are gay. Why should they? They are men and since men like to fuck, they - if they are not total shits (and even for them there are dark rooms) - always find someone to fuck. According to Aidshilfe, the percentage of gay men in the sexually mature male population is 2.5 to 3.4%.

Okay, then there are supposed to be men who have no desire for sex all their lives. Or at least are so sexually listless that most of them are unlikely to go into the trade. And there are men who would never go to a paid professional in their life. Their numbers are difficult to ascertain, because what man would admit to being sexually listless (i.e. "not a real man") or going to a hooker? But I have had many open conversations with many men in the course of this life and have found that a hell of a lot have experience with paysex. In this respect, I would have estimated the proportion of these men to be around 5%. That would put me at 10% non-john men. And there is actually a study by the B.A.T. Freizeit-Forschungsinstitut Hamburg commissioned by the magazine "Brigitte" from the beginning of the 90s that 88% of all men have been with a prostitute at least once. An article at T-Online says that according to a survey "around one million men in Germany visit a prostitute every day". So, for the sake of simplicity, let's postulate that about 90% of all German men are or have been prostitutes. So you are addressing nine out of ten men with your letter. And you really believe that there is "THE john"? All men are pigs? That would be about the level at which Alice S. has been talking about us on talk shows for years. About us men. In general. A kind of standard man. The lowest level of pigeonholing.

Digression 2: Why paysex exists. Yes, I absolutely agree with you on one thing: A world without prostitution would be great. But not because some moral guardians (who usually fuck other people or go to hookers themselves) want to ban it. But because there is enough free sex. But there isn't. You write:

"Prostitutes are only there because men like you stand in the way of a healthy and respectful relationship between men and women. [...] Prostitutes only exist because you have a misogynistic view of the world and are more interested in your sexual needs than in the relationship in which these sexual excesses take place. [...] If you buy sex, it means you haven't found the core of your own sexuality."

Let me counter this with another theory: Prostitutes only exist because many women cannot relate to their own strong female sexuality. Because women have been deeply traumatised by the misogyny of religions like Christianity, Judaism and Islam over hundreds and hundreds of years. Because women are constantly brainwashed that sex and marriage (or relationship) must go together. Because women have been taught to see sex as a barter, a commodity that they trade (see above) for relationship, marriage, recognition, jewellery and so on. Bartering was normal in earlier times. Then came money as a symbol. And we men, at the latest at the time of industrialisation, had to learn to make our performance - which is often our bodies - available in exchange for money. We men have been used to prostituting ourselves every day for generations. And often we feel fucked in the process.

This usually hard (and often not fast) earned money we exchange for your service. We've bent over backwards, now you lie on your back. And earn - if you're halfway good - in an hour what we slave half a day or a whole day for. Or - if you work in a running house - in a quarter of an hour you earn what many of us slave for an hour on average. Yes, we want a bit of fun as well as work. We carry this thing between our legs. And it makes itself felt. Day in, day out. We wake up at night or in the morning and there's this erection. And during the day too. We are confronted all day long by the media with horny women to manipulate us. There is constant production in our testicles. We are made to witness. Without sex we feel dirty, we become obnoxious. And sex is great. Sex is one of the best things we have on this planet. And we want to have it. Just like many of your fellow women like to go shopping, to the hairdresser or to a spa. We're just a little more simple-minded.

Many of us want to have sex with the woman we love and are with. But we don't always have a partner. And if we do have a partner, she often doesn't want to have sex. Because sex is not as important for them as it is for us and women anyway... see above. Or because she's disgusted by oral sex, for example, but we think blow jobs are hot - and can't really explain that to her, because it's sometimes hard to discuss this topic with women (I could write about this point alone for ages). So we pay for sex. If I'm with a woman who I love, who loves me, who is good in bed and usually has sex with me several times a week, then I don't go to hookers. Sure, I sometimes fancy another woman - because she's a different type than mine, for example. But hey, the combination of love and sex and trust is unbeatable. Most of us are not notorious hunters. Even if our dick would love to fuck every horny old woman we see, we often also have hearts and brains and can literally pull ourselves together. But a life without sex or only with a little sex is simply not possible for us. So we pay for sex.

Interim conclusion Almost every man goes to prostitutes and the only way to a world without prostitution is for more and more women to reconnect with their sensuality. Us men too, of course, you lazy bastards!

About your letter

"if you think I ever had any desire for you, you are terribly mistaken."

That's how your letter begins. Strange. Why would I think you'd lust after me? Baby, you fuck for money. Yes, we men are stupid, but so stupid that we think we have to pay you for your fun? Sure, a great lover gives us the illusion of desire. The illusion of lust. It's a game we're happy to play. It's a game we pay money for. We pay for the orgasm, for the release of pressure, but also for the feeling of being desired, perhaps also for tenderness, for a beautiful woman to take us naked in her arms. Sure, there are guys who really want to believe that you've just had a climax. But I don't. And neither do many of my fellow studs. We men are used to the idea of women faking an orgasm. It's not just in the playhouse. Unfortunately, many of us are very disillusioned. And if we can't be sure about our own women, should we believe a professional? But you write yourself:

"I was only good at playing this for you because I could practise it for free for many years."

Basically, I feel sorry for any woman who is used to faking. You talk about us sucking your self-respect out of you. But doesn't every woman give up her self-respect when she fakes an orgasm for us men? And isn't it also an act of disrespect towards us men? Instead of talking to us about what she likes, to dispatch us rather quickly, the main thing is to get it over with? Hey, either a woman has a man to talk to about sex or she should ditch him. Because since we love sex, many of us can talk about it too. You can talk to many men amazingly well about such things and their desires - if they didn't have to be afraid that their openness will have terrible consequences....

"If you thought you were doing me a favour by paying me for half an hour or a whole hour, you're wrong. I just wanted you in and out quickly."

A favour? Baby, we're customers. And if you do a good job, you appreciate your customers. And vice versa, the customer does the service provider a favour, because he leaves money. He might as well go somewhere else. If nobody books you, you have a problem. And most of us don't want to marry you, don't want to listen to your endless lament about other clients, we want hot sex and then leave. That's the deal.

Of course, some of us also want to talk about why they come to you. Because they can't do it with anyone else. As a rule, you can't talk to your wife about the fact that you don't have enough sex with her or that the sex is too bad. And what man is going to stand up in front of other men and say: "My wife doesn't want to sleep with me anymore"? But we can say that to the woman we just paid 80 euros for half an hour of sex. Because she knows anyway that otherwise we wouldn't have come to her at all.

"If you praised my looks, my body or my sexual skills, you might as well have spat on me."

We also praise prostitutes because they treat us nicely. Or because you can laugh with them. Or for whatever reason. Many punters (certainly not all) have respect for this difficult job. And also want to give recognition for it beyond the money. And we praise you for what you share with us. And that is, for example, your awesome tits, your horny blowjob technique or whatever. We can't give you credit for the fact that you might be a swell mate to go through thick and thin with - that aspect of your life remains closed to us. And by its very nature, it is not part of the deal. And while you criticise this "nice" behaviour with us in your letter, you also criticise those who treat you badly. Can a man ever please you?

"I also know that you defended and justified your actions by treating me well, being kind and reliable, never being mean or overstepping my boundaries. But you know what? That's called denial of responsibility. [...] There are no dear customers. There are only customers who reinforce the negative self-image of women."

So, even if we're correct, it's not okay. And why? Because we're using a service that women like you provide? No one forced you to be the hooker. You wanted it because there is "quick money" there. You come, as a colleague commented, from a country with one of the highest social standards in the world. As a rule, no Scandinavian woman needs to go prostitution in order to survive. Maybe you should take a look at the women who come from Latin America, Eastern Europe or other countries, and who usually support entire families by their own choice, lying on their backs. No, Tanja, these women deserve respect and really know what it means to be a wh're. You, on the other hand, are whining at a high level. It's good that you quit your job after three years.

And you know what: your letter sounds so much like self-hatred that it seems to me you've only become a therapist to heal yourself. You project onto us punters. You think we despised and abused you. At the same time, you despise us. Perhaps you have only abused and despised yourself....

"That you've been silently asking yourself if what you're doing is ethically and morally okay."

As I said, I would gladly refrain from going to wh'res. I know some women who don't like this job, who only get through it with drugs or permanently lose their respect for men, become unfit for a real relationship. Wh'ring is a hard job. I don't think there should be any in this world.

But for that, there would have to be more good and free sex in this world so that men would not have to go to wh'res, and more social justice so that women would not have a really valid reason to prostitute themselves. With this in mind, best wishes, Huckleberry

[Edited to fix formatting issues. Censored by me, he just writes out the full slurs.]

[–] mil-bil 2 points (+2|-0)

Thank you for putting so much work into the translation ❤️.

The man, on the other hand, put a lot of work into illustrating how here a coward who justifies abusing women.

I agree that we need to hear from sex-buyers more. People really need to hear from the horse's mouth exactly what twisted worldview produces the advocacy for abusing women.

Thank you for translating. " And the characteristic of prostitutes is that they exchange money for sex (and yes, we're leaving out all the women who exchange sex for a wedding ring, for jewelry, for recognition or love). " Ok so he's another man who thinks all women are whores, so why shouldn't he purchase one with the currency he wants- do I have that right? Does not think we're people at all.

[–] Lawful [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

Yeah. He doesn't think we're people. He thinks we're sex machines and that it doesn't matter whether he puts in affection or money as long as sex comes out.

[–] Luske 5 points (+5|-0)

So much wrong with this I will need a moment before I can respond 🤢

I tried to read it all but I feel too sick.

What are men, anyway?

[–] Luske 2 points (+2|-0)

Well, this man is sickening and disgusting :( and it's terrifying to think of how many men think like him

[–] Free_Metis RadFemMcGonagall 3 points (+3|-0)

I honestly couldn't read the whole thing. Maybe I'll come back to it and try to finish it. But from what I did read, this man is just making excuses for himself (90% of men do not see prostitutes. That statistic came out of his ass.)

Also, he is deluding himself about his own misogyny and deeply ingrained sexism. This quote was particularly mind-boggling:

And we men, at the latest at the time of industrialisation, had to learn to make our performance - which is often our bodies - available in exchange for money. We men have been used to prostituting ourselves every day for generations. And often we feel fucked in the process.

I can't believe he's twisting it around and saying that women aren't even being prostituted, it's actually the poor men we need to rescue.

And then he goes on to say:

This usually hard (and often not fast) earned money we exchange for your service. We've bent over backwards, now you lie on your back. And earn - if you're halfway good - in an hour what we slave half a day or a whole day for.

Right, so men are the slaves and prostituted women are just enjoying the benefits of male slavery??

I couldn't read further. Maybe later.

[–] Lawful [OP] 1 points (+1|-0)

It doesn't get better. This will be here if you feel up for it, but don't make yourself. Your well-being is more important.