It's okay that prostitution exists. Sex workers are human beings.

This comment... It's NOT okay that prostitution exists because "sex workers" are human beings and it's not okay to subject them to everything prostitution entails. I wish people would research the realities of prostitution before spouting this sort of crap. The majority of the comments recognise the harms of both porn and prostitution/sex trafficking though, so I am heartened.

‘It’s okay that child labour exists. Child labourers are human beings’

It’s because prostituted women are human beings that prostitution is not okay.

Yeah, this is the worst logic. I can hardly imagine anyone falling for "It's okay that slavery exists. Enslaved labourers are human beings." But sadly a lot of people -- for, against, or "not MY husband" -- still think of prostitution as something women do to men, or to men's families.

Also a bit sad to see how many only seem to care about the cheating aspect. There's a few nice comments though.

it is okay that drug addicts exist....drug dealers are human beings!

The heck? No one is denying that sex workers are human beings. Does she think that sex worker is an immutable trait? No one has to be a sex worker!

Imagine it from a different angle :” it’s ok that prostitution exists. Johns are human beings.” Or is it actually a bit gross and uncomfortable to be pro John?

There's very little talk about johns ever, even in the pro sex work scene. I don't think they actually really want to think about who would use their services and why.

Some of them toe the line of "Johns are victims sometimes", because occasionally they get trick rolled (when the sex worker robs them) or because they're so marginalized as to "require" prostitution (severe incels, disabled men, etc)

There's very little talk about johns ever, even in the pro sex work scene. I don't think they actually really want to think about who would use their services and why.

Its because even the pro sex work crowd knows that pretty much ALL johns are some combination of creepy, violent, entitled, ugly, unwashed, etc. If THEY were the face of the "sex work is work" movement instead of the women, nobody would support it

Lmfao at the women on there struggling to unlearn their “conditioning” to see johns as undesirable low quality men. I should have sympathy maybe, but… nah. You’re over 30, you have got no excuse for actively trying to train yourself to become stupider.

Women that do this, I have to be nice and sweet at all times, seriously piss me off. There is nothing wrong with saying Johns are disgusting.

I love my mother but she does this constantly to the point of being borderline cruel to people who are victims of others. Because she can never say a bad thing about anyone outside of her immediate family.

I know, completely ridiculous. There is no hope for women that stupid and brainwashed.

I literally stopped watching a male youtuber because of this. He said "selling sex is harmful to both parties involved". Really? Rape is harmful to the rapist? 🥴

Most women (who aren't sex workers) are ultimately anti-sex work. Especially if they're straight. At the end of the day even the most hardcore leftist women would not be okay with their male partners doing stuff with other women, and even more aren't okay with them watching porn in general even if they've thrown their hands up about it. Even those who claim to be polyamorous have messy relationships that don't work out long term due to the typical reasons.

Men are still men and when Gen Z dudes pick Gen alpha wives over their female peers who have done porn and camming and stripped because it's the "It Girl" thing to do right now, there will be backlash against what I like to call "Gen Z prostitute Feminism"

There already is. Men enjoy hook up culture throughout their twenties. But the ones who decide in their thirties to settle down often don’t look to their female former partners in crime for this. Good old double standards come into play: the men were just enjoying the opportunities that came their way, the women who behaved just as they did are irreparably tarnished in these men’s minds. The Madonna/whore complex hasn’t gone anywhere.

Exactly. They're cashing in on millennial men right now but they'll be just as lonely and "cheugy" as millennial women are in ten years

We really haven’t progressed from the mentality expressed in 1973’s Mean Streets (which I still haven’t got around to watching despite being a Scorsese fan): ‘there are the broads you bang, and the girls you marry’. That’s how men still think and you can see them expressing this view freely. Men are the ultimate SWERFs while being the consumers and creating the demand for the services offered.

I'm seeing this trend even in my friends who are getting divorced after marrying in their 20s. They all want the opposite of whatever they were doing for the last two decades, somehow. My friend who had wild, kinky sex with his wife who can't have children has now decided he wants kids and has moved on to a woman who's already got one, with plans to make more. My neighbor who settled down and had children with his (now ex) wife is now on the hunt for younger women (sometimes much younger) and is having a hard time balancing his newfound playboy emotional breakdown with his responsibilities to his kids. You can't really win. It seems best to never cater to men's wants and needs over your own because you'll always pay the price somehow.

I remember in college knowing damn well guys would see party girls vs girls they’d take home to their parents rather than just women who were human. If there’s one thing I’m grateful for and did right at that age was seeing that.

Saved me some self esteem issues down the road.

Yeah, people need to get offline once in a while and speak to women who aren't terminally online. The VAST majority of adult women would absolutely not be cool with all this so-called "sex positivity" stuff.

[–] [Deleted] 2 points Edited

Half the women online saying they are probably aren't either. I think it benefits the top 10% of the prettiest whitest most upscale sex workers and it's a nightmare for everyone else

No. If there is an element of interaction I consider it crossing monogamy boundaries.

I do not understand this line of reasoning. They act as if the woman in the porn recording isn't real and is instead a fake woman or a cartoon who their perv male partner is jacking off to. In reality, looking at a recording of naked women having sex/being raped is the exact same thing as looking at a woman in your house in front of you because . . . women in porn are real people.

So how the fuck is a man who watches porn being monogamous? He is literally cheating on you by deliberately looking at another woman and jacking off to her naked body. It's like if I came home and my (hypothetical) wife had some naked people on our bed and was masturbating as they had sex in front of her. How the fuck is it any different????

I honestly think people are so warped by our sexist world that they don't even see how watching someone else have sex while you're in a committed relationship is wrong and how it objectifies the people you're watching. I will never get over the male who came up to me and was like, "I know you get approached by men all the time but . . . (ah, you have an inkling that this is wrong and yet you're going to do it anyway), my girlfriend has a thing for butch lesbians. Will you fuck her in front me while I watch?"

Ughhhhhhh. How the fuck is that not objectifying??? I swear the world thinks lesbians are just pornstars or prostitutes or something. We just exist to entertain straight people and be used for their entertainment, and for some bizarre reason, we are supposed to find this appealing???

I went off on that dude, too, and I swear his dumbass was shocked and confused by the notion that I would find a random straight male's request that I entertain him like a pornstar offensive. Just imagine if gay men made it a practice to walk up to random straight men and ask them to please fuck their boyfriend in the ass while they watched because their boyfriend has a thing for straight guys!!! Of course, that never happens because straight men would beat the shit out of them.

Homophobia against gay men exists because straight men fear being treated the way they treat lesbians. Yet they seem to sincerely struggle with understanding that how they treat lesbians is sexist and demeaning. Lack of empathy, lack of emotional intelligence, no ability whatsoever to see women as human beings, rather than their bio sex toys.

I feel like younger generations (20-30) of women are more likely to be liberal feminists, pro-sex work, and porn than older generations (30-40). In this thread, most women are against sex work and porn but in other feminists sub with younger women, you're hated if you're against sex work and porn. I feel like I'm insane for not being "sex-positive" sometimes.

[–] [Deleted] 18 points Edited

Honestly I think that's kind of normal. I was really libfemmy when I was 20-30, and then I sort of woke up and got rad femmy. Part of it is probably that 20-something women have more value under patriarchy than older women, but you also don't have as much experience to know how shallow that kind of "empowerment" is until you been bit by it a few times.

Also your brain is literally not mature until you are at least 25....

I went through my libfemmy phase when I was younger, but there was always a part of me deep down that felt it wasn't right. Finding out I was pregnant with a girl, and picturing her going through everything I did, is what really tipped the scale.

As a woman in my 20s, I've sadly found this to be true. I've lost track of the amout of arguments I had in college with friends who were shocked to find I wasn't 'sex-positive' and pro 'sex work.' I had one lovely encounter with a man who said I had a savior complex because I detailed my reasons for being against prostitution. He also couldn't seem to understand why women would first devote themselves to feminism over other political frameworks.