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I just finished the recent FDS (Female Dating Strategy) podcast episode which included an interview with Lundy Bancroft the author of Why Does He Do That.

I cannot recommend this episode more (and the book), and I am super excited for the second part (its a two parter.)

However, it was really difficult to get through for personal reasons and brought up a lot of memories. Its not a light episode, however the pure truth that Lundy speaks on this issue is incredibly important so I highly highly highly recommend listening to this episode (even if you haven't read the book).

Its probably my favorite so far (although its hard to pick, the one about dick size was pretty good lol, my least favorite is the one where they interviewed the conservative muslim pickme girl ---bleh....)

Anyway, on to the difficult stuff now. So I'm giving all you wonderful people a massive TW.

I grew up in a very violent home. My father was also a pedo and sexually abused me. His abuse was very insidious and he was very careful....he may have done worse to my siblings but again I'll never know, I went no contact with my whole family over 8 years ago, my buried memories of what my dad did to me around 5-8 years old couldn't even really surface until recently, probably because my entire home life was so extremely unstable and violent that it took a backseat to the stuff that nearly ended me....

Anyway, one of the worst parts about all of it is I couldn't tell my mother anything, for she would also attack me for having basic needs and often accused me of lying. (Ignorant, but well meaning) people often ask me "why didn't you tell your mother?" I couldn't... She was like a far more unstable, chronically helpless Dolores Umbridge...who was also abused by my father.

Anyway, how the police were not called to my home more often shocks me the older I get. But I now I understand its part of the whole system. Its EVERYWHERE and its NORMALIZED.

This is why I need everyone to listen to this FDS episode because the guest there talks about that. Its so important to understand how and what we can do.

Specifically, the protection of male abusers is normalized to the point that people are conditioned to look away. In fact its a complete MRA "fathers rights" fabrication that men are unfairly accused of being child predators.

I can tell you the complete opposite is the reality. Neighborhoods , churches, and families are CONDITIONED BY CULTURE TO EXCUSE IT, LOOK AWAY and TRUST MEN.

I lived in a middle-class neighborhood btw. Not a ghetto, not an apartment complex. I called my childhood neighborhood a disney village growing up because it was so "white picket" and diverse (like a perfect postcard of tolerance and opportunity.)

But here's the truth:

When my parents fought I would play a game and count how many houses away I could hear the screaming. It would average between 4-8 houses down the street.

Yet nobody ever, ever, called the police.

I lived in that street for 13 years. All my neighbors knew us. Knew the house had children in it. Knew there was abuse. Nobody ever called.

Whats worse is some of my neighbors who had kids clearly also had sexual abuse stuff going on.

One of my neighbors sons sexually assaulted my sister when she was four and he was 17. This was only learned later when she was a teenager. She, like me, never told anyone.

The first porn I ever saw was when I was about 10 years old and it was a vhs gang bang pool party by snoop dog (and other rappers?) on another neighbors big screen (my next door neighbor btw) In THE MIDDLE OF THE LIVING ROOM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. Shown to me by their son who was a teenager, to his sisters who were my age, and to other younger kids (4-8) including my siblings. The VHS tapes of porn were all over the living room.

One of my worst realizations about my dad, was that he covered up his abuse of us by claiming he was a nudist and wrapping it all up in "no reason to be ashamed of your body" narration. He argued he was "just teaching us about bodies" and "who needs to be ashamed to be naked around your own parents?"

TW (this part is really gross.)

When I was a teenager, his sexual abuse of me stopped. However he was very emotionally abusive, boundary crossing and frequently forced me to hug him, hold his hands and kiss him and go places and do things with him under various manipulative tactics. Shaming, guilt-tripping and "you only get to be with your dad x amount of times" was par for the course.

When I was a teen one day he said he bought me a spa day at a very expensive place. I was shocked but excited to go. He told me he was going too, and I assumed it was going to be him in one room and me in the other and something like a facial/massage thing.

What he actually did was take us to a couples private jacuzzi spa. You know the kind where lovers go when they want a hot tub to themselves?

He also insisted ofc that we both go in together and both be naked together.

Now, he never did anything with me then. Never touched me. Never got aroused as far as I could tell. But yes, I was alone in a couples jacuzzi spa with my dad, naked, for about 2 - 4 hours a couple times a year, from ages 14 to 16. We would talk, but it was incredibly awkward.

Understand, he groomed me for years to think there's nothing wrong with nudity. Ofc I never complained because if I did there would've been potentially violent consequences. So in my head at that age, I just assumed he was too cheap to buy a separate room for me and had a weird ideology about nudity and I just had to accept it.

He ofc told me he also took each of my younger sisters there alone as well. My youngest sister was 10 when I was 16.

Now think of this from the perspective of the receptionist of this place. Would you never question a grown man taking a 10 year old girl with him to a private jacuzzi room?!?!? What about a 14 year old?

Nobody ever questioned it. Nobody.

This spa was indeed a very expensive spa. In the middle of the richest part of a very rich college town.

20 years later ofc, with my resurfaced memories and adult perspective I now realize how fucked up that was. Holy fucking shit.

And, my theory now is that he was doing things to my younger siblings and doing it there, under the cover of each taking us individually to father-daughter time.

He also was a serial cheater so its also entirely possible he booked these appointments with us and then used them to meet up with prostitutes or other women and only took us when they canceled the date.

The truth is I know that is also true because of the way he would give us (his daughters) randomly gifts that were clearly date type of gifts (chocolate, a random necklace) but when it came to our actual birthdays he was incredibly controlling (tl:drhe would take us shopping on our birthdays, and watch us pick things out, and if we didn't pick what he wanted for us, he would shame us, tl:dr it was a huge control thing for him obviously, and it even ended up with public crying in the mall which he in retrospect seemed to enjoy.)

The worst of it is, NOBODY EVER CALLED THE POLICE. NOBODY WHO WORKED AT THE SPA EVER ASKED ME IF IM OKAY. NOBODY QUESTIONED AN ADULT MAN TAKING AN OBVIOUS MINOR TO A SPA ROOM ALONE REPEATEDLY.

NOBODY QUESTIONED.

Similarly nobody questioned when a teenage girl was crying in front of her father in a store. "Teenage girls just cry" is the narrative. Its literally the opposite of what society says that men are unfairly doubted as good fathers.

Now, I can tell you 100% its justified the way women question men alone with children. From my abuse that I went through, I question it all the time. Its literally everwhere and no one cares. Its in the wealthy areas, its in the poor areas. Girls who are crying are ignored "just being girls."

Men can take minors alone to jacuzzi sex rooms.

I've worked with the public since (in a door to door way) and I can tell you 100% it does not discriminate. Wealthy women are getting beaten and poor women are getting beaten. And NOBODY CARES. NOBODY.

So tl:dr listen to that podcast now please please please, because they talk about what we actually need to do to stop this and its REALLY IMPORTANT.

I just finished the recent FDS (Female Dating Strategy) podcast episode which included an interview with Lundy Bancroft the author of Why Does He Do That. I cannot recommend this episode more (and the book), and I am super excited for the second part (its a two parter.) However, it was really difficult to get through for personal reasons and brought up a lot of memories. Its not a light episode, however the pure truth that Lundy speaks on this issue is incredibly important so I highly highly highly recommend listening to this episode (even if you haven't read the book). Its probably my favorite so far (although its hard to pick, the one about dick size was pretty good lol, my least favorite is the one where they interviewed the conservative muslim pickme girl ---bleh....) Anyway, on to the difficult stuff now. So I'm giving all you wonderful people a massive TW. I grew up in a very violent home. My father was also a pedo and sexually abused me. His abuse was very insidious and he was very careful....he may have done worse to my siblings but again I'll never know, I went no contact with my whole family over 8 years ago, my buried memories of what my dad did to me around 5-8 years old couldn't even really surface until recently, probably because my entire home life was so extremely unstable and violent that it took a backseat to the stuff that nearly ended me.... Anyway, one of the worst parts about all of it is I couldn't tell my mother anything, for she would also attack me for having basic needs and often accused me of lying. (Ignorant, but well meaning) people often ask me "why didn't you tell your mother?" **I couldn't...** She was like a far more unstable, chronically helpless Dolores Umbridge...who was also abused by my father. **Anyway, how the police were not called to my home more often shocks me the older I get. But I now I understand its part of the whole system. Its EVERYWHERE and its NORMALIZED.** This is why I need everyone to listen to this FDS episode because the guest there talks about that. Its so important to understand how and what we can do. Specifically, the protection of male abusers is normalized to the point that people are *conditioned* to look away. In fact its a complete MRA "fathers rights" fabrication that men are unfairly accused of being child predators. I can tell you the complete opposite is the reality. Neighborhoods , churches, and families are CONDITIONED BY CULTURE TO EXCUSE IT, LOOK AWAY and TRUST MEN. I lived in a middle-class neighborhood btw. Not a ghetto, not an apartment complex. I called my childhood neighborhood a disney village growing up because it was so "white picket" and diverse (like a perfect postcard of tolerance and opportunity.) But here's the truth: When my parents fought I would play a game and count how many houses away I could hear the screaming. It would average between 4-8 houses down the street. Yet nobody ever, ever, called the police. I lived in that street for 13 years. All my neighbors knew us. Knew the house had children in it. Knew there was abuse. Nobody ever called. Whats worse is some of my neighbors who had kids clearly also had sexual abuse stuff going on. One of my neighbors sons sexually assaulted my sister when she was four and he was 17. This was only learned later when she was a teenager. She, like me, never told anyone. The first porn I ever saw was when I was about 10 years old and it was a vhs gang bang pool party by snoop dog (and other rappers?) on another neighbors big screen (my next door neighbor btw) In THE MIDDLE OF THE LIVING ROOM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. Shown to me by their son who was a teenager, to his sisters who were my age, and to other younger kids (4-8) including my siblings. The VHS tapes of porn were all over the living room. One of my worst realizations about my dad, was that he covered up his abuse of us by claiming he was a nudist and wrapping it all up in "no reason to be ashamed of your body" narration. He argued he was "just teaching us about bodies" and "who needs to be ashamed to be naked around your own parents?" TW (this part is really gross.) When I was a teenager, his sexual abuse of me stopped. However he was very emotionally abusive, boundary crossing and frequently forced me to hug him, hold his hands and kiss him and go places and do things with him under various manipulative tactics. Shaming, guilt-tripping and "you only get to be with your dad x amount of times" was par for the course. When I was a teen one day he said he bought me a spa day at a very expensive place. I was shocked but excited to go. He told me he was going too, and I assumed it was going to be him in one room and me in the other and something like a facial/massage thing. **What he actually did was take us to a couples private jacuzzi spa. You know the kind where lovers go when they want a hot tub to themselves?** He also insisted ofc that we both go in together and both be naked together. Now, he never did anything with me then. Never touched me. Never got aroused as far as I could tell. But yes, I was alone in a couples jacuzzi spa with my dad, naked, for about 2 - 4 hours a couple times a year, from ages 14 to 16. We would talk, but it was incredibly awkward. Understand, he groomed me for years to think there's nothing wrong with nudity. Ofc I never complained because if I did there would've been potentially violent consequences. So in my head at that age, I just assumed he was too cheap to buy a separate room for me and had a weird ideology about nudity and I just had to accept it. He ofc told me he also took each of my younger sisters there alone as well. My youngest sister was 10 when I was 16. Now think of this from the perspective of the receptionist of this place. Would you never question a grown man taking a 10 year old girl with him to a private jacuzzi room?!?!? What about a 14 year old? Nobody ever questioned it. Nobody. This spa was indeed a very expensive spa. In the middle of the richest part of a very rich college town. 20 years later ofc, with my resurfaced memories and adult perspective I now realize how fucked up that was. Holy fucking shit. And, my theory now is that he was doing things to my younger siblings and doing it there, under the cover of each taking us individually to father-daughter time. He also was a serial cheater so its also entirely possible he booked these appointments with us and then used them to meet up with prostitutes or other women and only took us when they canceled the date. The truth is I know that is also true because of the way he would give us (his daughters) randomly gifts that were clearly date type of gifts (chocolate, a random necklace) but when it came to our actual birthdays he was incredibly controlling (tl:drhe would take us shopping on our birthdays, and watch us pick things out, and if we didn't pick what he wanted for us, he would shame us, tl:dr it was a huge control thing for him obviously, and it even ended up with public crying in the mall which he in retrospect seemed to enjoy.) The worst of it is, NOBODY EVER CALLED THE POLICE. NOBODY WHO WORKED AT THE SPA EVER ASKED ME IF IM OKAY. NOBODY QUESTIONED AN ADULT MAN TAKING AN OBVIOUS MINOR TO A SPA ROOM ALONE REPEATEDLY. NOBODY QUESTIONED. Similarly nobody questioned when a teenage girl was crying in front of her father in a store. "Teenage girls just cry" is the narrative. Its literally the opposite of what society says that men are unfairly doubted as good fathers. Now, I can tell you 100% its justified the way women question men alone with children. From my abuse that I went through, I question it all the time. Its literally everwhere and no one cares. Its in the wealthy areas, its in the poor areas. Girls who are crying are ignored "just being girls." Men can take minors alone to jacuzzi sex rooms. I've worked with the public since (in a door to door way) and I can tell you 100% it does not discriminate. Wealthy women are getting beaten and poor women are getting beaten. And NOBODY CARES. NOBODY. So tl:dr listen to that podcast now please please please, because they talk about what we actually need to do to stop this and its REALLY IMPORTANT.

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15 comments

Thank you so much for being honest with us. This shit needs to be exposed, and all the shitty details known. I really want to mulch all men now. Yes, all men.

I feel you. Too many men. Some men are good though. For example, a male distant relative saved my life (literally) and supported me in me going NC with my immediate family. I wouldn't be alive where it not for him and he didn't have to do anything to help me. I hate the term "Nigel" though. Until we get rid of the term "Karen" I will never fucking use the word Nigel. In fact I hope to come up with a way to turn it into an insult equivalent to Karen. Agree?

Some men are good, I agree, but sometimes I'd be ok with them disappearing if all the bad ones also disappeared. I have a male partner, and I think he's one of the good ones. I can see him being a good "dad" to a girl, rather than a predator (he never had kids, and neither did I). Still, if a genii showed up and said "all bad men will disappear, but so will all the good ones", I might just go for it. As far as "Nigel" goes, it always seemed like sarcasm to me. "My Nigel" seems like a bit of a put-down, there always seems to be a bit of an eye-roll along with it. It's the male equivalent of "the little woman". I'd rather find a way to make Karen mean "woman who won't back down". Women don't have enough good terms for ourselves, and guys ALWAYS find a way to turn women's words into insults. We'll do better if we work on turning the old words back around to compliments, and creating new ones.

I'd rather find a way to make Karen mean "woman who won't back down".

I wish that this was the case but theres no un-breaking that plate. Its broken now. Its a new way of saying the b-word. Men just have such a deep deep need to slur us when one word is made not okay they make up a new one.

I can't like the word Nigel. No offense but it gives me the creeps. Just a personal take. It feels like a crawling, measely, simping, cartoonish low effort way to reduce a man to a "good enough." I don't want to live in a world of "good enough." I want better. Men need to be better.

It would be as silly as calling "good women" a thing. Shoot there was a term once wasn't there? Brenda was it? Or Sharon? The anti-Karen? I hate that too.

But I accept the difference of opinion. I didn't take it that way before but now I see where you are coming from.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 19 points

Im copy pasting some of the parts of this that I think people need to read especially.

This myth is why women who are invested in boys and men keep devoting the majority of their lives to males, hoping to somehow make a better world, when in reality their very devotion to males prioritizes them before girls and women, feeds them psychically, emotionally, physically, and literally keeps patriarchy going. If women stopped supporting men, patriarchy would end. Besides refusing to reproduce, this is the most important thing that women can do for the earth.

And this:

Because we are trained from our earliest memories to worship males and to believe lies instead of our own perceptions, the truth can be shocking and upsetting. But we can easily see the truth all around us, and it ultimately frees us.

This explicitly. For me it was immediately freeing. I didn't struggle with it because it finally made clear what happened to me. I was no longer confused.

However I disagree that men are "naturally born rapists." The reason this thought is dangerous is it still ultimately 1) excuses men and 2) reinforces helplessness 3) again forces the responsibility on women, the victims need to resist the "natural" behavior of men. Aka its another way of saying "boys will be boys."

Lundy talks about this in his interview with the FDS'rs. . . the truth is it is the socialization that teaches men. Socialization however is NOT ABUSE. He explicitly talks about how people mistakenly think its only abused men who rape and beat their wives and children.

Its not abuse that socializes men to rape. ITS THE WHOLE SOCIETY AND 1000 YEARS OF THAT CULTURE BEING CEMENTED IN ALL THE WORLD. Its the IDEOLOGY OF RAPE CULTURE that RAISES BOYS TO BE ABUSERS to think they are ENTITLED TO THAT ABUSE and therefore ITS NOT ABUSE BECAUSE THEY ARE ENTITLED TO IT. Its the mentality of a male supremacist that is passed down generation to generation, not emotional damage that makes the "poor man" not know any better.

Male supremacists and abusers are the same. "Fathers rights" petitioners are the domestic abusers. Men who hate feminists are the rapists. Its an ideology. A cancer of the mind. There is no genetic code of it. Equal numbers of sons raised by child rapists (csa victims) end up not being abusers just as much as normal men who never were harmed or traumatized by their parents. Its just whether or not they are caught by the prevaling social disease of male supremacy.

ETA: And again, lundy talks explcitly how there is no mental condition, abuse or genetic history (ie. passed down a family line) that determines who becomes an abuser. Its a religion, a social contagion. Whether the child internalizes the message that "mom deserved it when dad got mad" or not entirely has to do with what messages the kid gets from society around him, his peers, his own parents and other relatives. Some cultures are so bad that 80% of men admit to supporting hitting their wives....so its cultural. Not biologically ingrained.

[–] Misssarcasm 15 points Edited

After becoming a mom, my spideymom senses grew stronger. Now if I hear a baby, a child or a woman cry, scream etc. I notice and try to do anything. Usually its just a tired baby, a moody toddler or a frustrated woman but you'll never know. When no one notices and speaks up, we have to.

I am heartbroken about your past, I hope you are in a better place now and surrounded by love.

I am in a better place now thanks. But I am very concerned about the whole world sliding backwards. We have to fight for every inch. Our foremothers bled and died for our rights. We can't take it for granted.

That's so sad to hear. I'm glad your no contact and dealing with it now. I'm new to Radical Feminism. I also have started to be wary of men and question them. Nothing as extreme happened when I was young but we knew who to stay away from. My mother did call child protection on neighbors, she fostered, but they never investigated anything. What else cutie she do!? So frustrating. Lundy is amazing. Very excited to hear him talk I think he should be on all school syllabus never mind this gender bullshit! Stay strong!! 💪💪💪♀️♀️♀️

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm sorry you had to go through all of this shit. It's hard to be no contact with family, even when they are very abusive, so I have empathy for you where that's concerned. <3

Thanks. It is hard. Most people don't have any clue. However every year gets better, because its like a process of grieving. Like my family died but they didn't die.

I don't talk about it outside therapy or my partner but here you all need to know what it looks like. Its important to the movement. My father doesn't "look like an abuser". There is no look to an abuser. There also is no look to a victim. It also happens in plain sight. That woman you think has it all was raped by her dad growing up.

First of all, it is horrifying and disgusting that your dad did this to you. And almost worse that the entire community, along with your own mother, supported him.

You are totally correct that the whole of society is built to support and enable abusive men. It is totally by design. The world loves abusers.

I can’t wait to listen to the podcast! Have you read the book? It is really good.

Of course, the ink hadnt dried on my addition of Lundy Bancroft to my Wall of Good Men before I saw that he abused his position to get with women. I can’t find the article anymore. So hopefully it was just a rumor.

OMG. I'm so sorry you were betrayed so badly.

You are right - it is everywhere and society is groomed to ignore it. It can be through ignorance of the signs, active enablers, people overwhelmed by the futility of reporting - so many reasons. But no excuse, there is never an excuse for the destruction of children's psyches.

I'm so sorry no one ever protected you. You deserve protection and kindness. Thank you for having the strength to share your story.

Once you noticed it, you never stop seeing it.....

I am so sorry, sister. We are here for you, and never for them.