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18 comments

[–] TheHistoryMachine 18 points (+18|-0)

I guess men are allowed to go their own way, but when women want to do the same thing...oh, the pearl-clutching by men and their handmaidens!

[–] marmaladetoast 13 points (+13|-0)

Those guys just obsess over women in openly violent ways and feel jealous of other men, really. The 'going their own way' moniker is just the usual self inflation on their part, like a very flaccid threat to take their toy home.

[–] Moonpriestess 15 points (+15|-0) Edited

I sometimes go on dating apps on the off chance that I'll see an interesting profile.

To impress women, men often list their favourite books and music.

Take a wild guess what percentage of those lists include female artists.

Funny how it's ok for men to completely eliminate women from their minds.

[–] moody_ape 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

oh but they don't eliminate women from their minds completely. we need to be in their minds for the misogyny.

[–] Moonpriestess 10 points (+10|-0) Edited

Oh agreed. The only real estate we have in their minds is as objects that can serve them, not as artists, creators, or brilliant minds.

[–] GCRadFem 12 points (+12|-0)

The phrase is old school. Back in the 1970’s, feminists wore t-shirts with the slogan “Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle”.

The saying has always been attributed to Gloria Steinem, but Irina Dunn, a Australian educator, journalist and politician, coined the phrase back in 1970, when she was a student at the University of Sydney.

She paraphrased the philosopher who said, 'Man needs God like fish needs a bicycle.' (I could not find who the philosopher was that first stated this.)

[–] womenopausal [OP] 11 points (+11|-0)

Text: “To emancipate a woman is to refuse to confine her to the relations she has to men, not to deny them to her.” So wrote Simone de Beauvoir, the godmother of French feminism, in “The Second Sex” over 70 years ago. Not all French feminists today would agree. A new book, “Lesbian Genius”, suggests that women should banish men from their lives. Its author, Alice Coffin, a lesbian activist and Paris city councillor, says she no longer reads books by men, nor watches films made by men, nor listens to music written by men. No more Voltaire, Truffaut or Daft Punk, then. We need, she declares, to “eliminate men from our minds”.

The backlash was immediate. Not from men (who needs to hear from them?), but from other French feminists. Marlène Schiappa, formerly President Emmanuel Macron’s minister for gender equality, accused Ms Coffin of advocating “a form of apartheid”. Sonia Mabrouk, a radio host, asked the author if she was not promoting “obscurantism” and a “form of totalitarianism”. The Catholic University of Paris, where Ms Coffin taught, declined to renew her contract.

France gave the world post-war feminist theory. But today unwritten codes about dress, seduction and femininity coexist with a lingering predatory sexual culture. #MeToo struggled to take off in France. The rate of féminicide, or murder by a domestic partner, is unusually high. A younger generation is fighting back. Many took to the streets earlier this year, enraged after a César, the French version of an Oscar, was awarded to Roman Polanski, who fled America after pleading guilty to sex with a minor. Mr Macron has put in place measures to combat sexism and violence against women. Yet such efforts to promote mere equality are dismissed by radicals as timid. The veritable “war” waged by men against women, argues Ms Coffin, who honed her views while studying briefly in America, requires more militancy.

In her denunciation of the way power still protects predators, Ms Coffin is spearheading a new French feminism. But de Beauvoir would have found her crusade against men as a whole “ridiculous”, says Agnès Poirier, the author of a book about Left Bank intellectuals. De Beauvoir, who was bisexual, lived for decades in an open relationship with Jean-Paul Sartre. She flouted convention and gave French women a voice, but defiantly kept both men and women in her bed—and in the conversation.

[–] babayaga 10 points (+10|-0) Edited

In her denunciation of the way power still protects predators, Ms Coffin is spearheading a new French feminism. But de Beauvoir would have found her crusade against men as a whole “ridiculous”, says Agnès Poirier, the author of a book about Left Bank intellectuals.

Simone de Beauvoir also found the criminalization of pedophilia to be ridiculous. She didn't really have the most critical or clear-eyed view of men.

[–] catspls 7 points (+7|-0)

And didn't she also sleep with her female (high school!) students and then hand them over to her husband? She may have written a groundbreaking book but she doesn't seem like someone who should be looked up to as a person.

[–] EvenMoreMinty 0 points (+0|-0)

Comparing removing oneself from males to apartheid? Really??

I swear everyone's gone mad.

[–] moody_ape 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

i remember saying that fish/bike sentence when i was 15. i once wrote it in the black board and a teacher (male) said "men have invented everything. tell me ONE thing women have invented." to wich i responded angrily "they gave birth to the inventors". he was speechless hahahahaha i didn't know much about feminism and back in the mid 2000s the world wasn't as woke as it is now, but i already got it!

later i found out this same teacher stalked and harrassed a friend of mine. we were fucking 15!!! i don't remember how old he was, probably in his 20s. it was illegal and creepy. he would spend most of the class talking to this friend of mine and she told me about this one time he showed up at her door asking her out. like wtf??

[–] heartwitch 6 points (+6|-0)

As usual, the Economist covers something important, but in the most obnoxious way possible.

[–] Vita 5 points (+5|-0)

There used to be loads of nunneries and beguinages throughout Europe (including France), so the shock against this idea seems so weird. Maybe because France has been secular for so long they have forgotten that large, all-female communities were once considered quite normal.

In S Korea, the radfem movement is closely tied to Christian women's universities. The universities insisted on single-sex for propriety reasons, and the surrounding areas had a lot of women-only cafes. Now they are the hotbeds of the 4B feminist movement.

I sometimes wonder if America's religiosity is what will eventually collapse the woke/trans part of the left. People often underestimate "church ladies" but they get shit done and know how to organize & network.

[–] Bogos -2 points (+5|-7)

I think we need at least some contact with men to remind us of where our ingrained behaviors come from. Complete segregation also sounds like the idea of communism - nice in theory but inevitably corrupt in practice and better to find a progressive balance.

[–] Verdandi 12 points (+15|-3) Edited

You know it's optional, right? Not once has any separatist demanded we all do it, but that's the dramatic, unnecessary conclusion that people often come to. It seems to really piss people off when a woman that has nothing to do with you chooses to live her life in a way that again has nothing to do with you.

You can stay with your Nigel, don't worry.

[–] Bogos 7 points (+7|-0)

No Nigel, no plan on having any Nigel. And I’m actively trying to create a woman centered life. I took it more as a recommendation and not an individual choice, I was speaking for what I think generally works.

[–] babayaga 11 points (+11|-0)

Complete segregation also sounds like the idea of communism nice in theory but inevitably corrupt in practice and better to find a progressive balance.

I don't think the woman who titled her book Lesbian Genius is being 100% serious here. She hasn't yet run off to an all-female commune. It seems like it's intended to be an intentionally provocative, tongue-in-cheek declaration. Like she wants people to think about how women are seen in art and literature; how people (both men & women) can consume only art made by men and not have it be an extreme or fringe political stance.

nice in theory but inevitably corrupt in practice and better to find a progressive balance.

You might as well say the same about the goals, beside separatism, that radical feminism proposes then, right? It's not progressive reform.