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NSFW
HorrorHas anyone else read NIGHTBITCH
I give it a 8/10
The word "cis" is only mentioned once in a sort of sardonic way. The way the MC relates to other women makes me feel a little uncomfortable but it's a very weird book so I give it a bit of a pass. I think it would have been ten times cooler if she had a daughter instead of a son.
What did you think?
How many ex-gay people are recovering from bodily harm and self-mutilation, including the use of a colostomy bag for the rest of their lives that directly resulted from being gay?
Being ex-gay doesn't harm anyone, just as being gay doesn't harm anyone, including the individual themseleves. Calling yourself "trans" does both.
Your questions are all really good ones. My question is why don't gays or lesbians keen and wail and seethe about ex-gays the way TIPs do about detransitioners? For the most part, the LGB attitude about ex-gays seems to be "if that works for them, whatever." The existence of ex-gays doesn't seem to cause a mass existential crisis among the still-gays.
Do we have any stats comparing the motives, backgrounds, etc of ex-gays to detransitioners?
In fact, I bet if someone tried to actually do this research, the gay and lesbian community would, for the most part, be supportive and curious. The gendies? Not so much.
In fact, I bet if someone tried to actually do this research, the gay and lesbian community would, for the most part, be supportive and curious. The gendies? Not so much.
That's such a good point! I'm lesbian, and me and my other lesbian and gay friends at most just, see them with some pity, hoping that if they're in that place because of some internalized shit, that they'll eventually be able to get the support and confidence they need in order to be who they are. There's NEVER an attempt to suppress them from speaking, no matter how idiotic they sound (Milo Yiannopoulos, anyone?) because we know they aren't a threat.
I'm convinced Milo is just trolling libs/grifting his dumber fans and that his life is still an all-you-can-eat sausage buffet. Apparently he claimed that once he stopped being gay, dogs stopped barking at him, which he took as a "sign from God." Yeah LOL I wouldn't be too bothered about ol' Milo either if I was gay...
LOL yeah he claims to be ex-gay but last I heard he's still living with his "former" partner as a roommate now HMMMM... he's definitely having his cake and eating it too. He's such a fascinating trainwreck i can't help but watch what he's up to. He's so objectively awful but I still feel empathy for him because I think his ex-gay phase isn't even entirely due to the grift... he genuinely was a victim of CSA but he struggles to see himself as a victim, and I think his confused feelings about his sexuality partly stem from that.
Either way, no LGB person that I know takes his ex-gay shit seriously, and if the detrans movement were even comparable, the TQ crowd would just ignore them, or at most pity them.
He could even be bi. It seems a lot of men especially really struggle with being bi and feel they have to "pick" one, internalized homophobia is a hell of a drug.
If you go back 20-30 years ago, there was a lot of seething about ex-gays, and the LGB movement worked really hard to shut conversion therapy down and discredit ex-gays. And like detransitioners, many ex-gays eventually "detransitioned" and came out as gay again.
One difference is it is much harder to detransition than to stop denying your homosexuality. People really have no idea who ex-ex-gays are, except for the high profile leaders. They never changed their names, presented themselves as the opposite sex, altered their bodies and all their legal documents, made the whole world aware they were ex-gays. Someone walking into an office is not obviously gay the way someone who transitions is. How people have to interact with with an ex-gay or ex-ex-gay is no different, but interacting with someone who transitions and detransitions puts an incredible mental load on those around someone who transitions/detransitions.
They never changed their names, presented themselves as the opposite sex, altered their bodies and all their legal documents, made the whole world aware they were ex-gays.
Trans ideology is pure self obsession
Being gay neither deifies gender stereotypes nor puts one on a path to medicalization. Homosexuality is no different than heterosexuality. Transgenderism is more akin to a religion, a toxic cult of body modification and regressive ideas of what people can be based on their sex.
To compare the two is like saying that being straight is like being in a religion. It sounds absurd because it is. But for some reason, it's okay to say the same thing about gay people.
Detrans people are just people who walked away from a religion.
Agreed. Being gay is a real thing that happens. Having sex with another person is having sex with another person, whether they are same sex or not. It's the same thing really. That's why I always laugh when people act like gay sex is some mystical thing and "cishet" sex is somehow boring or different. Let's be crass, it's stimulating genitals together no matter how you look at it.
Trans is literally fake. It isn't real. You cannot switch sexes and there is no magical in between sex either, full stop. Believing in gender is like believing in a soul. People are free to believe what they want, but it isn't the same as something existing in concrete material reality.
One important difference is that many of the detrans people precisely stopped identifying as trans because it was a method to correct their gender nonconforming & gay or bisexual orientation, and they now advocate against transing the gay away. So it's quite the opposite of ex-gays, if anything, trans identifying people who went from lesbian women to straight trans man are closer to conservative ex-gays.
I know an ex-ex-gay, who is now married to a man. From the same circle is an ex-gay, who is now married to a woman. We have all known each other for many many years.
In the ex-gay world, there is nothing but an echo chamber. There are huge seminars, weekend events, retreats, message boards and “devotional” groups. They are in constant contact with each other, meeting up and talking and praying and policing each other and toeing the party line. There’s lots of dragging down gay men in the media, and ex-ex gays especially, talking about how “lost” they are. Lots of learning how to convert young gay men to ex-gay, to “bring them into the fold”. Even after getting married to women, they stay in these groups, they run the events, they keep preaching their ideology to new members. They hold an “inner feeling” that they are wrong for being gay, and must change it and live their life as “straight” men (Often ruining the lives of women they are married to).
There is no ex-ex-gay “world”. Sure there may be small groups of friends that meet up for coffee once every couple years. You might get slipped a phone number of someone who can sort of mentor you as you navigate accepting the reality that you are in fact gay. You might go back and forth for a while, because the noise of the ex-gay world is deafening, constantly pulling you back in. But thankfully they come to terms with who they are, and will speak out against the ex-gay ideology and tactics as a whole, especially the more brutal brands of meetings. But they will not tell an individual ex-gay they are wrong. They will not try to force anyone to live their lives as gay men.
You can decide which one sounds more like trans vs detrans.
Thank you for that context; I've never known any ex-gays personally so I have no idea what their world is like on the inside.
What really stands out to me through reading this is that while there are ex-ex gays that leave the ex-gay movement, "retransitioning" seems a lot more rare.
I remember a 20/20 special on ex-gays from years ago. It featured a gay couple who met at an ex-gay retreat lol
Like others have said, a person realizing they aren't gay means they just... aren't going to have homosexual relationships anymore. There is no physical harm done.
A person realizing transitioning is a mistake, may have already done physical harm to their bodies via drugs like off-label "puberty blockers" and cross-sex hormones, and possibly even surgeries.
If it was only social transitioning, then it'd be the same amount of "harm" as being "ex-gay." It wouldn't be a big deal. But trans isn't just social. It's physical alterations via medications and surgical procedures.
I'd say that 'ex gays' are much closer to trans than detrans (and are often the same picture, given that transitioning is frequently a form of conversion therapy). One is accepting the reality of what you are and living your life within those parameters, the other is trying to be something you aren't and can never be, often under extreme social pressure (not being able to comfortably fit into restrictive gender roles, extreme sexualization, trauma, entirely TRA friends/transhousen-by-proxy parents versus wanting to live up to culture/community and family and religious demands). Many gay people living under such conditions would choose to not be gay if it were a choice. Many detrans people would choose to be the opposite sex if they could. Some come to appreciate living in their own skin to the point where they accept and would no longer change who they are, while others go back to chasing the impossible through denying reality.
Two different things. You might as well compare detransitioners to ex-Nazis in response.
But if you want to play their game, I would argue that ex-gays don't regret making irreversible changes to their bodies. And that minors shouldn't be pushed to choose a sexuality.
I'd say "no, trans people are the new ex-gays, and detransitioners are the ones who stop denying who they are."
Trans people are usually ex-gays. Transition is conversion therapy.
Yep. Trans the gay away instead of pray the gay away.
TIF detransitioners are usually "ex straights" who have gay relationships so...