For soke reasons I can't open pictures uploaded on ovarit
It's amazing how Dems managed to fumble the female vote so badly when every other word out of Trump supporters' mouths was "repeal the 19th" this and "childless cat ladies" that.
Could petition for another prop that alters the approved prop voting:
No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws of this state or any subdivision thereof. No person shall, because of race, color, ethnicity, national origin, age, disability, creed [or], religion, or sex, including sexual orientation,
gender identity, gender expression, pregnancy, pregnancy outcomes, and reproductive healthcare and autonomy, be subjected to any discrimination in their civil rights by any other person or by any firm, corporation, or institution, or by the state or any agency or subdivision of the state, pursuant to law.
And argue that TIPs are already protected under the "sex" clause in this new text, but that women were not protected when the Prop 1 clause included "gender identity, gender expression" because it goes against women's safety (equal protection) to be forced to be with men (TIMs) in formerly women-only protected spaces (domestic violence shelter, changing rooms, showers, jails, etc.).
Organizations like WDI or WoLF might be able to help with this.
I stumbled upon an old article while Ovarit was down that discusses a family that moved to Oregon because of the privileges afforded to TiPs on the basis of anti-discrimination laws protecting "gender identity." It made me realize that this is all Prop 1 was really about: forcing insurance companies to cover the costs of "gender affirming care" and using the MtF reverse-Uno card on women who "discriminate" against the men who call themselves women.
Edit: added the article link
Edit: The good news is, Prop 1 will most likely play out just as we expect it to, and people will realize their mistake.
Also, yeah it was blatantly obvious that this is what it was about, and why I’m befuddled that it running on “abortion rights” worked
people don't read. And that ballot was bonkers. Why give a biased "summary" when the prop was 300-500 words? Print the whole thing out!
Because that isn't what NY law requires, the law requires a summary, not the statutory language itself. But the summary was accurate, there was actually a lawsuit because the summary doesn't use the word abortion and the Democrats wanted the word in the summary. The court held that the language of the proposition was not clear as to how it would protect abortion rights, so the word abortion shouldn't be in the summary.
I hope so but I’m not sure how easy it is to repeal this sort of thing? Or how long it will take, and the damage done in the meantime.
How do we expect it to play out?
I imagine it will play out as employers getting sued for bogus discrimination claims made by TiPs (the grifter TiPs will go in for the kill immediately, while the gettin's good); mom and pop restaurants and bars getting sued when someone asks a man to leave a women's restroom; employees getting fired because TiP coworkers claim they feel discriminated against; schools getting sued by parents who want their sons to play on the girls' teams; parents realizing they can't send their daughters off to summer camp with the expectation that they will be in single-sex cabins; more rapes and fights in school bathrooms; more kids protesting about the bathrooms; and more TiPs moving to New York to get their surgeries covered...
The proposition changes nothing about existing NY anti-discrimination law. Our Human Rights statute already covers all these categories. The difference is this is now in the state Constitution, not just a statute. It really doesn't change the existing litigation landscape, TIPs can already sue.
It really doesn't change the existing litigation landscape, TIPs can already sue.
But now they can sue on the basis that something is "unconstitutional," no? It seems to me that by including gender ideology (i.e., "gender identity" and "gender expression") in the state constitution, that this will both embolden TiPs (and the NYCLU) to launch even more lawsuits, and it will make it harder for parents to protect their children. This outline from NY Republicans seems pretty convincing to me, although their focus is on benefits for migrants. Edit: Even the Catholics who came out against this to their flock say they are not worried about the abortion angle because it has no teeth; they are worried about the gender ideology.
No, as far as individual lawsuits go, this is not really meaningful. NY passed "GENDA" in 2019, which added gender identity and gender expression as protected characteristics. What Prop 1 does is make changing the state human rights statute much more difficult because you have to change the constitution, the Legislature can't just pass a new law repealing GENDA.
But I seem to be in the minority of GC feminists that believe there really is no conflict between protecting against discrimination on the basis of gender identity and discrimination based on sex. We've gotten trapped by the TRAs' really bad legal arguments and have been fighting them on their terms and on their turf so to speak. When we buy into the idea that it is gender identity discrimination when we categorize people based on their sex, where there is a legitimate governmental interest in categorizing people based on sex, we've lost the argument. The Olympus Spa case has driven me crazy from day 1 because there was no gender identity discrimination, no TIF was excluded from the spa because she did not have a "women's" gender identity. A male was kept out of a female space. Gender identity is irrelevant to that legal analysis. I'd love for "cis" men to show up and then claim they were discrimated against because of their gender identity, i.e., they do not identify as women. But if a man who identiies as a woman must be allowed in, why isn't it gender identity discrimation if men who identify as men are excluded? If the legal arguments are framed correctly, the whole case falls apart.
I guess time will tell if Prop 1 actually benefits women and girls in any way, or if it mostly benefits TiPs and non-citizens. I'm no expert. Catholics seem to think there is a conflict of rights when it comes to gender identity and their ability to exercise their religious beliefs free from state interference. I'm not convinced that these constitutional protections for TiPs won't conflict with those same constitutional protections for women, since protecting men on the basis of a claimed "female gender identity" is like living in Opposite Land. I don't get why they would bother at all with Prop 1 if it has no genuine relevance.
By adding something to the constitution, even if statutory law already covers it, you make it much, much harder to for the law too change if the composition of the Legislature changes. That is why states where abortion is legal by statute are still adding amendments to their constitutions so a conservative takeover of the state legislature won't end making abortion illegal.
I see your points. That does make sense.
I guess I was hoping for something more...positive.
Honestly with all the crazy bullshit stuff being passed in progressive states I've got my fingers crossed that our new Republican candidate state/house/president/federal Court will uphold their campaign promises and use their unilateral power to pass some of federal code. It was a huge campaign point for them.
And I'm pretty sure federal law trumps (pun not intended) local law? So if the federal government passes a thing that says there's only two sexes like they promised and that women have rights to single sex spaces it won't matter what bullshit new york passes.
Federal law does not always trump state law.
I looked it up just to check, and it does usually. We have the Supremacy clause in the Constitution that explains how in cases of conflict federal law trumps state law. Federal courts have also ruled that states cannot nullify or ignore federal laws. Article III of the Constitution gives federal courts, not states, the power to interpret if something is constitutional and over turn federal law. (Exceptions being things that are meant to be done at a state level, such as policing)
States can expand on federal law but not ignore or lessen them (or they can pass laws and hope the federal government doesn't challenge it, in which case it world go to federal courts to decide if it should even be a metal law... Marijuana is weird like that. There's some laws about restricting based on THC like if they changed. Our legal system is very complicated is the tldr bit in general the federal law takes presidense.
Edit: Obviously that's a simplification and there's difference to what can be a federal law verse state law. The federal government also doesn't necessarily fight every local law about stuff, like the current ruling federally on marijuana just sorry of being ignored
And I did a deep dive into weed law at 2am. There's a clause which affects policing to the state level. So they can make it non-criminal at a state level while still being illegal federally. So while you won't be tried at a state level for it in places it's legal, you can still be tried at a federal level. But the federal government just doesn't want to waste it's limited resources on weed when it could be going after cocaine dealers and stuff.
My comment was about a federal law, i.e., statutes, in response to this "So if the federal government passes a thing that says there's only two sexes like they promised and that women have rights to single sex spaces it won't matter what bullshit new york passes."
Yes, SCOTUS' interpretation of the federal constitution is the final word, but Congress does not have the vast powers to make laws people think it does. What Congress usually does is tie funding to things it doesn't otherwise have the power to do. Title IX is only enforceable through loss of funding. Congress has no power to regulate HS and College athletics, other than threatening institutions with loss of funding.
Congress's power to legislate is limited by Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution:
Section 8 enumerates Congress’s specific legislative authorities, including the power to tax and spend, to borrow money, to regulate interstate commerce, to establish uniform rules on naturalization and bankruptcy, to coin money, to punish counterfeiters, to establish post offices, to regulate intellectual property, to establish courts, to punish maritime crimes, to declare war, to raise and support armies, to govern enclaves, and to make other laws necessary and proper for executing these enumerated powers. That is a lot of power, but it doesn't go as far as people think.
The 14th Amendment gives Congress the power to legislate to enforce equal protection, but that is generally against state actors. I.e., Congress doesn't have the power to force stores to keep single sex bathrooms, unless SCOTUS were to hold that denying women single sex bathrooms is a violation of the equal protection clause. This is the same issue with "codifying Roe", if the federal constitution does not protect the right to abortion, Congress has no power to legislate with respect to abortion. It can pass laws like EMTALA that say if a hospital gets federal funds it must provide emergency abortion care to stabilize a pregnant woman, but even that just got cut back by SCOTUS. The real danger we face with respect to abortion laws and litigation is if Congress passes a nationwide ban, some group or state challenges it, and SCOTUS takes that as an opportunity to declare fetal personhood. All the state constitutional amendments women have worked so hard to pass would all become unconstitutional.
Can you give examples of when it does and doesn’t?
The long answer is complicated, but the short answer is under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution federal law, treaties, and the federal Constitution trump state laws (as long as they have a basis in the Constitution). States can still go to federal courts to have the laws deemed non constitutional.
https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/articles/article-vi/clauses/31
Edit to add: anything not specified at the federal level is state level, like policing is considered state level generally. which is why weed laws are illegal federally but not criminalized at many state's local levels. So while you won't get hit with a lawsuit for weed at a state level in New York if the federal government decided they could go after you at a federal level since it is still federally illegal... It world just be a huge waste of money to go after random citizen for weed position.
One example of federal law superseding state is the equal protection clause in the 14th Amendment. It guarantees the right of all citizens to be treated equally under the law and has been interpreted to apply to the states as well. It was used to strike down Jim Crow laws even though those laws were passed at the state level.
On the other side, the Tenth Amendment extends all powers not expressly delegated to the federal government to the states or the people. Among other things, this means that states are free to extend additional rights to its citizens that the feds don't. Handing privileges to TIPs at the expense of women would almost definitely fall under the Tenth, unfortunately.
Explaining federalism on social media with one or two examples is like trying to squeeze a lake in a thimble. But here's one that is very timely. Marijuana is a controlled substance at the federal level, but states are either decriminalized it or legalizing it left right and center.
I tried to find a good article explaining federalism and the separation of powers, but nothing relatively simple popped up. But governmental power is divided between the federal and state governments. In some areas, the federal government has exclusive authority (i.e., no state can make its own currency), some areas the authority is shared, some areas the states have exclusive authority. Marriage is a good example. No one files for divorce in federal court. Congress cannot make laws governing marriage, that is why DOMA was eventually struck down. And Congress could not pass a law saying same sex marriage has to be legal nationwide, it took a SCOTUS decision to do that.
I really don't want this to come off as an "educate yourself" comment, but it is really important that people understand how complex our government is, and where the power and authority to make laws lies. People are voting without understand how our government works.
Weed is so weird. New York won't put you to trial for it, but the federal government can still.
Back when Trump took over the doj backpeddled an Obama era decision saying they'd only go after like money laundering, selling to minors, gang funding, and other high rush things. 2016 government wanted to be after everyone.
But they still didn't go after many people... because it was a huge waste of money when the jurors would just acquit you. Jury Nullification at play there
The federal government never went after "local" or individual users. That has always been left to state law enforcement. Dealing is a different issue, but I don't think I've ever heard of a federal prosecution for simple possession.
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😂 yeah, that’s true. I guess I was wondering more like what would be the legal difference of when it does and doesn’t and would it apply to this prop 1 thing
Yeah, federal law does trump state law when there are conflicts. That was my one feeling of relief 🫣 when trump was elected, that at least maybe his anti-trans stance will hamper whatever prop 1 bullshit NY tries to pull.
Not all the time. I think Ovarit needs a US Con Law 101 circle, because too many women here really do not understand how the US government and legal system works.
Not sure what other laws/rights you have to work with there but gender identity should be considered irrelevant in a "single sex" space that exists because of sex differences, not gender stereotypes. In Canada the Charter prohibits sex discrimination which is defined as any policy that disproportionately harms women. Letting women into men's locker rooms does not endanger men the way letting men into our spaces endangers women & girls.
I didn’t even find out about prop 1 here until shortly before the election and I told as many of my peeps as I could to vote no…but even as I voted no I knew it would pass!!
I hand painted my anti prop 1 signs. It took me all afternoon. I knew with every brush stroke what was to be. Putting them up was still important to me. Our voices are more important now than ever.
We make the legal argument that it is not discrimination based on gender identity when you refuse to allow a male into female only spaces, regardless of how he identifies, it is discrimination based on sex, which the law permits. Discrimination based on gender identity would be to refuse to allow a male into male spaces, or to participate in men's sports, because he has the "wrong" gender identity. Kicking Lia Thomas off the men's swimming team would have been discrimination based on gender identity, keeping him off the women's swim team is not.
I do believe we will get to the point where the law recognizes that you can prohibit discrimination based on gender identity, i.e., you can't refuse to serve someone in a restaurant, or sell property to them, etc , but that doesn't not mean that sex based classifications and protections are eliminated. We have to make the argument very clearly that discrimination based on sex is permissible in certain circumstances (safety, privacy, fairness (sport)) and that is not discrimination based on gender identity.
This is what I’ve been thinking too, that we need to flip the narrative TRAs have made about discrimination based on gender identity. You are correct, discrimination based on gender identity would be a TIM being kicked off of a male team, not a TIM being prohibited from a female team. Thanks.
Moreover, allowing him onto the womens team IS discriminating on the basis of gender identity, because what's now keeping the "cis" men out?